New HW analogue/hybrid synth GAS...

[petal]

For some reason I actually didn't consider the dsi prophet08, but now that I have I can see that it is an interesting option as well. And it's even at the same price as the Pro2. I guess hat the choise between those two really comes down to poly/mono, DCO/DSP, "simple"/complex mod/routing options and sound of course.

And now there's also the Sequential Prophet 6 to consider - even though it's going to be more expensive and it's not available yet.

It's really annoying that my local Music Gear Pusher only have the Pro2 and he Prophet 12 for me to listen to and try out. I'd really like to get a 1st hand impression between the P2/12 and the P8 and the Tempest.

Oh man all these choises and options - the burden of real first world problems.

[Nestor]

I hate to do a great effort which is, even after a lot of work, not enough, it is so frustrating

Scenario: You decide painting your home with detail, you do all the preparation better even than a professional, you sand every corner, every window and every door, you treat every aspect of every surface avoiding humidity, etc., etc., but at the end, you get a cheap wall paint to end your job… What kind of effort is it? An incomplete one! Yes, we don’t want to spend too much, but…

If you go for something “very good”, the extra effort it is totally worth and it really pays you back very well when you decide, instate, going to “perfect” or “totally satisfying”.

Painting a home in detail is a hard job, you go all the way and not to spend some more money, you give up in one of the key elements: the quality of the wall paint you have chosen. Don’t do that brother.

You have gone through an entire life learning to play the keyboard, understand synths, getting better and better in what you do as a composer, years and years of effort and hard work, you have gone through a hard learning curve to finally be able to make the music you want as you want. Well, it is the right time to get a Solaris, covering all your expectations for ever.

Choose the best wall paint! Choose a Solaris

[braincell]

It terms of analog synth sound quality, you can not beat the new modulars:

http://www.modularsynth.com/

Also this is a hobby that will grow and grow as you get old unlike just getting a Solaris.

[petal]

@ Nestor: Nice metaphor but I don't think I'm ready for the Solaris just yet. It's acutally one of the reasons I'm on this search for a HW synth atm. I'm looking for a unit that will "teach" me synthesis with a well thought out interface and great sound. I've learned a lot on Scope, but now I need to get my hands on knobs and faders.

@ Braincell, yes an analogue modular system could be interesting and maybe even a life lasting hobby as you say. But I keep hearing my music friends talking about "Eurocrack" everytime we talk about modular systems

Right now my GAS is up for both the Pro2 and the Dominion 1, which SonicState just released a nice review off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_tIDPxs9oQ

[Nestor]

Damn! I thought I had you sold!

[astroman]

@ Nestor: Nice metaphor but I don't think I'm ready for the Solaris just yet. It's acutally one of the reasons I'm on this search for a HW synth atm. I'm looking for a unit that will "teach" me synthesis with a well thought out interface and great sound. I've learned a lot on Scope, but now I need to get my hands on knobs and faders.

from my experience this just doesn't work - you only need some good basic understanding - then choose your tools... or weapons...
Solaris is structured clear enough to learn by doing - not a monster patch at once, but piece for piece
with such synths you don't need everything at once anyway
it's all there just in case an idea pops up

I've had some very limited hands on experience on Solaris and it 'unfolded' smoothly - it's really well thought-out

my modular patches rarely use more than a dozen items and I rarely have a full clue what's going on
similiar (and from my perspective most instructive) was an EMS Sythi emulation
just 3 oscillators, noise, reverb, plus a full modular patch matrix
there's so much interaction between the parts that one surprise will follow the next
downloaded the hardware manual, watched YT clips (and totally fell in love with the original)

the thing is simple and those virtual dials are as good an intuitive as real ones
but they don't teach a single bit more than the dials on Solaris
(because they react so specific to the momentary context)
they work different than most screen dials as you turn them several times full circle to make a (say) 30 degree angle movement
this resolution allows very fine interactions between tones

I'd second an MFB anytime - cool stuff - but for educational purpose ? imho not really

cheers, Tom

[Nestor]

SOLARIS! SOLARIS! SOLARIS!

[petal]

Hehe.

I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna go for the Solaris. I feel I somewhat have it already on my Scope system and I want to find a different sound than what I've got on Scope.

I know that Solaris HW is supposed to be in a different league and all that, but never the less.

If only the MFB Dominion had total midi implementation I would just buy it, but unfortunately the midi implementation is very limited on the Dominion.

The Pro 2 has working total midi implementation, integrated effects and an interesting sequencer, but the sound somehow reminds me of what I have on Scope. Could it be the "clean" digital oscilators?

[Nestor]

In fact, I'm excited about your search. It is true that if I was at your place, I would get a Solaris, but I am just joking I have listened and played attention to the Pro2, and I understand that it would be very hard not to be happy with such a piece of gear, if this is the kind of sound you are looking for.

[jksuperstar]

The Pro 2 has working total midi implementation, integrated effects and an interesting sequencer, but the sound somehow reminds me of what I have on Scope. Could it be the "clean" digital oscilators?

I think it means that scope does a really good job at Virtual Analog And having John Bowen do the emulations, make them very sequential/DSI like.

I find the same "clean" thing in DSI synths (I have an evolver)...the way they get dirty, doesn't add anything to the bottom end, the way a Moog does. They are more of a lead synth to my ears, and have a limited freq range.

Ps - I like the evolver a lot, but the desktop interface doesn't help one explore sounds for happy mistakes at all. Sequencer and 4 oscillators is powerful, even if it is clean.

[petal]

Good point - and somehow it doesn't surprise me at all

I just came home from another session with the PRO 2, and it is not the sounds that are pulling me in, as I feel I have access to those already. It is the userinterface, all the knobs and the sequencer that attracts me. I'm not sure if that is enough though to justify buying a 2000$ mono synth.

[jksuperstar]

Ebay has Mono Evolver Keyboards (all the knobs there, with sequencer, but no effects besides "hack" distortion and the GREAT delay lines) for less than $1k.

And then you get dual wavetables and dual analog oscillators, with dual analog filters and dual VCAs. A very flexible architecture that supports subtractive synthesis, physical modeling (using the tuneable delay line), plus basic FM, and wavetables. All great learning tools.

I personally think Dave caved in to the analog "purists" when he went for the Prophet '08, since the evolver is way more powerful.

[petal]

Yes, the evolver has caught my attention in my search for a synth. My only problem is that they only seldom show up on the secondhand market here in Denmark - I would prefer to get my hands on a poly evolver though But maybe it's worth waiting for one and just get an Elektron analog "something" to kill the time in between

How is the keybed on the Evolver?

[darkrezin]

Dominion 1 looks amazing from reviews and the demos sound great to me. Then just add Eurorack modules

[jksuperstar]

I only have the desktop version, so I couldn't say.

[dawman]

I would definitely go Modular especially since you can start off cheap in the land where everyone is equally taxed, then just get what you want instead of paying for a design you might not totally need.
I'm still waiting to figure out a way for Scope Modular IV to be integrated w/ and w/o selected hardware for a huge/cheap Modular.....

[petal]

Yeah the Dominion does look nice, but minimal midi implementation (not even filter cutoff...) - Still I might go for it.

Going the Modular route would be interesting, but I hear rumours that it is also very addictive and therefore expensive

The evolver really does intrigue me. It does sound very interesting - and look who I found

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNb0JhkryVs

[erminardi]

The flatness sensation that the contemporary synths give us is mainly because of the DSP effects at the end of the sound chain.
For example is notorious for the passionate that the Alesis Andromeda sounds flat and almost poor (the infamous "meh" effect...) at the main output but very nice and deep from the eight single osc analog output... so just use a mixer to put them together...
The DS synths arguably suffers of the same problem.
Honestly for an analog I always prefer a RAW synth like MFB, ARP, Korg MS20, Minimoog, etc.
And even if you want to add some effects, I will use only analog pedals like i.e. Mooer Analog Delay, because I noticed that the sound will suffer of any native/digital added effect.
(and again, don't forget to mic the amp and not use the synth into the DI...)

[petal]

It seems like you are a true analogue purist Erminardi, what are you doing on scope where we make the sound "suffer" with digital effects?

Jokes aside - You make some interesting points, which will help me "test" analogue equipment and make sure to test it bypassing digital effects if possible.

However, I know that I am going to use any new synth with Scope and Live/Cubase, so it will go digital at some point. Also knowing my own "need" to control stuff and edit parameters from my daw, good and correctly working integration and midi implementation is important to me.

I have found that MFB Dominion is almost not supporting Midi other than note's.

The Pro 2 might actually work correctly with Midi, but Dawman told me: that if the HW synth didn't "make me hard" I should walk away.

DSI Tempest is also lacking and will propably never get more midi implemented than it has now, because DSI are afraid it will corrupt device tightness - good point, but sad.

I honestly havn't checked up on the Moog Sub 37 midi implementation after I decided not to go Moog.

Even though I heard a lot of good stuff about Elektron, at first I didn't bother to look into Elektron Analog devices, because of their convoluted small screen interface. But then I heard about Elektron Overbridge, which is actually total Elektron device integration with your DAW over USB, both audio and Midi:

http://www.elektron.se/news/announcing- ... for-analog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdyygHlS68&t=131

If overbridge is going to work as adviticed, I might go Elektron Analog Keys or Analog Four.

Being able to create ideas on one inspiring hardware unit alone away from the computer, and then when you are ready or feel the need, have total working device integration with my daw and Scope and just sync up the project might be my dreams come true.

If you guys have experience with Elektrons workflow and their new Analog line, please share

[erminardi]

From the Analogue Solution website:

This synth has no memories – Advantages
- None of the parameters or controls are quantised. So when you turn a knob, you are turning a resistor that affects a real analogue circuit.
- Because each parameter is not under solid CPU control, each parameter has that tiny analogue drift that adds so much to character.
- You are forced to be creative. No reliance on presets! Each time you make a sound you are being original.
- Quick, easy and simple to use! WYSIWYG – no nasty menus and sub-menus to change the sound.

I guess the first point is the key of the "meh" effect on those contemporary analogs like DSI... IMHO.