New HW analogue/hybrid synth GAS...

[petal]

Growing old is not always a bad thing. FX in my case, I now have "plenty" of money to spend on my life long music hobby.

Failing to map out the nice scope synths to HW-controllers because of the cc-assignment bug for instant hands on, I've started to look around for other nice stuff that will give me hands on control.

My quest is this:
1. Plenty of HW hands on controllers
2. Analogue synths - not because I actually believe it is better than digital, but I have plenty of digital synths already, I want something else.
3. I want a modern synth, that does presets, midi in and out, velocity and AT and the ability to record my hands on magic on all those nice controllers for DAW-editing and composing.

I have my eyes on these at the moment:

Moog Sub 37
I find the interface very appealing, and the Moog-guy sold it very well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N4xntZbdW0

And this one really finds a lot of interesting corners of what the Sub 37 can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDXESToG4p8

DSI Pro2
For some reason I actually prefer the DSI/Sequential sound over the Moog sound, but I don't find the interface as appealing. I do feel the GAS for the DSI Pro2 as well though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNp85kiMXK0

Korg ARP Odessey
Then there's the Korg ARP Odessey - Although I don't really feel the gas for that one (yet):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCfeN5l0uqU

Korg MS20M rack kit
Last I find the Korg MS20M rack kit intersting as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdCtUapVPfI


Should I just get them all and be done with it or should I control myself and think: I have Prodessey, I have Minimax, I have Pro1 and Pro12 (but no hands on)?

Is it only beacuse I'm now over 40 and want to feel young again or are these new synths actually as inspiring as I think they are?

What do you think, which new synths are you looking at and why?

Cheers (in beers) and have a nice Evening/Sunday
Thomas


Ps.
I need a drummachine as well - Elektron keeps catching my attention, but it does include menu diving...

[erminardi]

can I also suggest to give a listen to the MFB Dominion 1?
http://youtu.be/R5ZjXVECOq0
http://youtu.be/0lLT4YguHa8

Currently my preferred analog synth around £1.000

[petal]

Thanks and yes, the MFB Dominion 1 is definitely a candidate too.

I really like the filter sound and the synths many features and massive routing/modulation options and still everything is "hands on".

I don't find it as beautiful as the Sub 37 or the Pro 2, but it's sound and feautures are all the way up there and maybe even above.

I might very well go for the MFB Dominion 1 - It seems to have every thing I have been looking for.

The only thing I can't figure out is, does it have full midi support - Can I record every changes made to the controllers in my DAW, edit this automations and then control the synth afterwards?

[erminardi]

Full midi automation for real analog is always very tricky for 2 reasons:
1) the price: every pot should be converted to digital
2) for the reason 1, often, the producer decides for that hateful endless rotary encoders, that cancel all the feeling touch of the real thing.

IMO the midi for the keys are enough to capture/repeat the right sequence, but the cutoff and sometimes the resonance and LFOs, I never found a problem to tweak manually during the track rendering.

[petal]

Good points.

I am a control freak though - I program my music more than I play it.

Maybe this synth is simply not for me then.

There are of course the CV in, which would give me control over a limited but essential number of controls. I would need more Audio outs then...

[jksuperstar]

If you like DSI, why not a Tempest?

[astroman]

I found the Korg Oddy rather convincing in a 1:1 comparison of a German mag
(my expectation were lower)
but as I wanted the white version it's not my cup of tea anyway
thumbs up for Fricke (MFB), cool stuff

cheers, Tom

[erminardi]

Honestly, I always liked the Odysey, but currently for £750... I think that the Dominion1 gives much more for £950.
Modular I/O, 4 voices paraphonic, arpeggiator, sequencer, patch saving/recall, full size keys, build quality, etc.
And the sound seems to be in the same league.

I'm pretty sure that the Odyssey after 12 months will be available in a typically crowded second-hand market for a more honest half price, just like my "new" Korg MS20 Mini.
The sound of the Mini MS20 is awesome, but the build quality is very very basic, so I guess the same for the Odyssey. I will investigate on this.

[petal]

Yes, the DSI Tempest is deffinitely an option as well.

I'm gonna spend a lot of time at the local music gear pusher figuring out which synths I find the most inspiring fooling around with.

[petal]

I found the Korg Oddy rather convincing in a 1:1 comparison of a German mag
(my expectation were lower)
but as I wanted the white version it's not my cup of tea anyway
thumbs up for Fricke (MFB), cool stuff

cheers, Tom

Why don-t you get the "white version" then? It comes in three flavours:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much ... yssey.html

[petal]

I went to the Music Gear Pusher today after work, with a serious GAS for the Sub 37.

When I came out I was thinking, maybe a DSI Tempest, and I hadn't even tried it - they didn't have it.

Sub 37:
It's beautiful, the keys feels great, it has lots of knobs, I totally believe in it's firmware, the filter and the sound is really great - but, when I browse through the presets, everything seems to sound the same. That Moog sound is simply present at all times. That may be a good thing depending on what you are looking for. As I've said before, I'm not really into the Moog sound. However I do love the implementation of it on the Sub 37, but I find the range of sounds too limited. I don't think the Sub37 is for me.

DSI Pro2
It's beautiful and the keys feels great. The filters sound great. It has lots of knobs, but in a different way than the Sub 37.
Browsing through the presets you quickly get the feeling that this is a modern "digital"/Hybrid synth. It's range of possible sounds is simply much greater. But does it have same kind of presence as the Sub 37? I'm not sure, it was hard to say, because the presets often have delays on them. My gut feeling was that the sound wasn't as raw as the Sub37 and that it was a sound disguised somehow, but still I found it a lot more useful for what I am looking for.
The sequencer was fun, the 4 note paraphonic stuff was fun, I loved the distortion and feedback option. And I'm sure you can spend hours with it alone and have great fun. Still I'm not totally convinced for some reason - I think the presets turned me off. Too many bells and whistles, not enough substance. The substance might be there, but I will need more time with it and build my own presets to be sure.

Korg Oddessey
I also tried the new ARP Odessey. Nice sound, but I was totally turned off by the keybed and I am looking for a modern synth with presets and total midi implementation.

Korg MS20
Nice sound. Don't recall how the keyboard felt. But again, spending this much money, I am looking for a modern synth with presets and total midi implementation.


I'm looking for a synth that will catch (and keep) my attention and make my inspiration flow because it's sounds are easy accessible. I thought the Sub 37 was it, because of it's great implementation, I'm just not really into the Moog sound.

I might be into the sound of the Pro2, but it doesn't really do the one option one knob thing the same way as the Sub 37 and all the effects on the presets makes me suspicious.

Then there's the MFB Dominion 1, which I sound wise find somewhat inbetween the the Sub37 and the Pro2, but the midiimplementation is limited (as explained by Erminadi above).

Maybe a DSI tempest?..

[erminardi]

Pay attention of the Korg MS20 Mini and rack, that features the original Korg filter that has some noise in background, and some people are upset by this. I like it because is original, but in a modern digital DAW production gives some troubles...

Today people are more use to synths with mastered presets (with effects and complex layers, etc.) and curiosly I noticed that young musicians are on average disappointed by the raw sound of the odyssey, MS20, sound test.

[erminardi]

And of course every analog synth you listed should be heard/recorded not with a DI but through an amplification and speaker miking, to achieve the proper classic sound of the glorious '70.
Especially for classic raw mono synths. (but valid also for i.e. softsynths and scope synths. There is no a realistic way with guitar amp simulation IMO...)
Listen to a Moog with headphones is like to judge the beauty of a girl by phone...

[petal]

I did notice the noise on the Korg, and found it quite loud and a bit strange - I didn't know that it was "original".
I'm not sure I'd like it to be there all the time, but overall I liked the sound of the Korg.

Maybe I should get a Pro2 and a Korg mini and make good use of those cv outs on the Pro2.

[petal]

And of course every analog synth you listed should be heard/recorded not with a DI but through an amplification and speaker miking, to achieve the proper classic sound of the glorious '70.
Especially for classic raw mono synths. (but valid also for i.e. softsynths and scope synths. There is no a realistic way with guitar amp simulation IMO...)
Listen to a Moog with headphones is like to judge the beauty of a girl by phone...

I used the same set of headphones on all synths - it's what I'm used to and propably how I'm going to work with them 95% of the time anyways. But good point

[dawman]

Rob a Bank or BitCoin vendor and get a Solaris.

Everything you spoke of wanting is on there, but much more.

I learned long ago, with a hands on synth, you gotta go hard or go home.

Good Luck getting what you want.

[petal]

Yes, the thought has crossed my mind, and I'm sure that the Solaris is an awesome synth - but she sure does come at a premium price and as a Dane I have to add 25% to the price in tax. (Living in one of the worlds most equal societies doesn't come cheap )

So what you are talking about is marriage for life, and I will have to wait until the wedding night for some hands on live action.
I need some dirty action NOW! Even if it's just gonna be a "cheap" relationship that isn't meant to be long term.

I'm not even sure I'm ready to get married just yet - My goal is to get better at synthesis and learn hands on.

My dad's old friend always said: "you practice on the ugly ones".

Today I feel the GAS pretty strongly for the Pro2 and I don't even find her ugly.

[astroman]

... Why don-t you get the "white version" then? It comes in three flavours: ...

you have a strong point there
didn't know about those 'special ediditions' and overlooked the filter switching for all 3 historic types

cheers, Tom

[petal]

OK - I have been investigating the DSI PRO 2 quite a bit the past few days, while i've been surpressing the urge to just go and buy it and move on.

By now it is very clear to me that it is a very complex and capable synthesizer, with a great range of possible sounds and loads of possibilities for modulation and routing. And the more I investigate, the more this synth reminds me of John Bowens Solaris. In many ways they are very similar, when it comes to complex modulation and routing. Off course the Pro 2 is "only" a 4 voice paraphonic monosynth with 2 analogue filters, which makes it a different beast - still the similarities to Solaris are striking.

What is also very clear to me is that people are really raving about the Pro2. Of course you have the "analogue" fan boys to whom digital osc's are a no go, but to quite a lot of people, the Pro 2 is the answer to their wildest synthesizer dreams. Especially because of the the complex modulation and routing capabilities, that we know from John Bowens Solaris.

Maybe John Bowen and SonicCore should create a Solaris Mono synth for the masses - throw a few analogue filters in there to help people "accept" it

Bonus info:
The digital effect unit in the Pro2 is driven by a Analogue Devices DSP Chip.

[faxinadu]

the ms20 is surprisingly limited in its pallete, the keyboard sux and it is a noisy synth. also, at least here in israel, the second hand market is just flooded with these, seems tons of people are trying to unload them... i had it from a friend and i think if i owned it, i would look to unload it too after a while. we did use it in some tunes with nice results.

why not a dsi prophet08?