Best Brick Wall Limiters

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spacef
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Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

Hi ALl,
Just thought I would share my findings and may be hear from your own.
Some of you know that I am releasing a single (nothing too fantastic, but I try to do it right for the future). So yesterday , the guys who manage relationship with radios asked me if I wanted to boost my version as well as the dance versions they had been doing. My version comes from an expensive mastering studio in Paris (they have probably more than 100.000 euros of gear... like speakers at 22.000 euros (each!!) etc :o ..

But yes, it could be boosted , but it is hard to avoid distortion.
What i needed is just to cut a few peaks, more than what they could achieve in the mastering studios.
What they are asking for is a "re-master" (boost levels of the studio mastering).


1 - I began running my single through Optimaster: very good boost of volumes, but too slow compressors let micro peak pass through ( I didn't try the limiter, I have one DSP limiter that is better ;-) ...).
2 - Downloaded Izotope Ozone 4 Demo, and the plugin is pleasing, but a little bit behind Optimaster.... no improvement on compressors attacks. Optimaster does a better job in respecting the original shapes and volumes, but micro-peaks still pass through, forbiding a full normalization (you end up with more compressed dynamics, but a loss of volume, so it has to be re-worked a bit after an optimaster treatment). Izotope is exactly the same, but in my iopinion, it performs less than optimaster (look at the izotope shape below, which is nomalized at 0 dB... I don't have the optimaster pic, but it is much bbetter than izotope in this field. With Optimaster, all is more contained, there is not such big dropdowns in volumes, peaks are more rounded.)..
3 - Loaded Melda's Limiter..... which came free when I bought their compressor at 30 euros... and at last, it is what I wanted to get. Hard and fast clipping.

4 - I didn't try LimFat, but I know it would have done a good job in hard clipping, but not as well as Melda's plugins, which generate no distortion at such clipping levels, and also the thing is that I didn't want to go through Scope again due to the very tight schedule and no time to think too much (1 hour to do 4 tracks....) ... that's why I finally chose the vst way.

A picture speaks for itself, even though it is comparing different mix of lilmiting/compressing algorythm..
But in the same time, it is comparing two Mastering tools (Izotope and Optimaster) with an almost free limiter....
NB: There is a vinco too, but that was "pre-master-studio" (it is alsready in there).

ps: it is the mastering from the studio that is "re-mastered" (re-limited?), i don't think i would have reached such a rectangular wave without going to this mastering studio first (i've tested a couple of them, not all of them acheive good clipping/levelling, not without distortion at least).....

Good luck, and thanks to share experiences.
Attachments
Melda Production.... best hard limiter for re-mastering
Melda Production.... best hard limiter for re-mastering
MeldaRules.jpg (327.84 KiB) Viewed 4768 times
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dawman
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by dawman »

Glad to see you knocking them down..
Thanks for the tip on Melda.
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katano
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by katano »

but who wants no dynamics? :P
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

radios, clubs, promotion... everybody except the musicans and sound/masters engineers ;-)
beleive me, between my original song and the final masters, there is world or two....
even between the two masters studios, there is a huge difference in everything.

ps: don't be fooled by the pics, if you zoom in there is still something like -7/-8 dB RMS (average)...
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dante
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by dante »

Have you tried Brickmaster ? http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_04/brikmast.htm

I HAVEN'T USED IT IN ANGER LATELY DUE TO THE MATERIAL I'M WORKING ON LAST 6 MONTHS NEEDS ALL THE DYNAMICS BEING A MIX OF ROCK AND ORCHESTRAL. BUT I'M SURE ON A 3 MINUTE TRACK FOR RADIO PLAY IT WOULD BOOST THE HELL OUT OF IT AND MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THE WAV IMAGES OF THE RUSH ALBUM VAPOR TRAILS ( HTTP://WWW.PETITIONONLINE.COM/VTR2007/PETITION.HTML ). OH, AND THE REASON FOR THE CAPS ? http://web.archive.org/web/200312081103 ... 2E005DAF1C

SO Q:
katano wrote:but who wants no dynamics? :P
A: THE LABELS !
Last edited by dante on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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spacef
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

Don't worry, for DSP based things, I have LimFat as well as other stuff i wouldn't trade for any DAS or even SC production ;-)
eventhough Vinco...
Last edited by spacef on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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katano
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by katano »

a bit OT, but however: @spacef my fatinsert keys got lost when moving keys to the xite-1, what can i do?
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spacef
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

ask SC for the transfer ?
it shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by katano »

even if i bought the devices directly from you a few years ago? ok, will try then :-) i'd like to fatten up my stuff again, but not brick fat walling :-)
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spacef
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

even if you buy from me it is still 50% to Sonic Core, and yes, I've payed them.....
for the 50% of spacef, the upgrade to xite is 100% free
for the rest, i cannot tell SC what to do but it has never been a problem with anyone in the past, so unless you've been a bad boy to them, i don't see why anything would let you from upgrading to xite Fat keys :-)
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by katano »

I haven't been a bad boy, I sent them chocolats for christmas last year :D
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dante
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by dante »

Do those compressors have look ahead ? I would have thought that would solve the problem of letting peaks get through. With look-ahead, wouldnt the software know a peak is coming and compress accordingly to avoid harsh distortion ?
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by valis »

Wish I could get their compressor for 30eu :evil:
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spacef
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

http://www.meldaproduction.com/freevstp ... ressor.php
as you can see , it is free :-) (see the "license" page for the price: 30euros let you have other plugs such as the limiter)
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by valis »

Fluxpod
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by Fluxpod »

Pictures look ...gnah.There are many ways to make a Track LOUD without trying to paint the whole waveform diagramm ...I usually use optimaster with look ahed on and very moderate to get a generell loudness.Then in wavelab i use voxengo elephant.Good results without smashing the material into oblivion.I refuse to be a part ion this war of level.Never any mention of too quiet material.
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next to nothing
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by next to nothing »

Funny timing on this one....

Happy 25th of march, Dynamic Range Day!

http://dynamicrangeday.co.uk/

Image
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by ChrisWerner »

next to nothing wrote:Funny timing on this one....

Happy 25th of march, Dynamic Range Day!
Hurray, revive the volume knob on our amp, free the 96 dB's.
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spacef
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

The pics I posted, the most "compressed" wave has -7.9 dB average RMS, not far from the 8dB dynamic advised in the article: it is already way too compressed and doesn't have lots of space. What comes from home doesn't usually pass the 9dB. I am sure none of the Michael Jackson song wave posted above has lower values than -11/-10 dB Rms avarage... they can crop the peaks a bit more :-) Just to point out that -8dB is already a very compressed track in terms of dynamics, I never received something so compressed form a mastering studio personnally.
Thanks for the advice about Elephant. Here, Optimaster and multibands in general could not be used, as the main interest of mastering is not compression, that you can do yourself, but the Equalizing that should be kept when you like it (I don't trust my room enough to rework equalization that was made with speakers which value is 44.000 euros a pair (big B&W speakers) :-) )
Anyway, it has been entirely remixed and remastered already, eventhough the single is already out in its original sound, now we have the v2 before the v 1 even reached anyone ears , lol :-)
Last edited by spacef on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best Brick Wall Limiters

Post by spacef »

ps, you can check RMS buddy freeware, allows to view in realtime various rms values, very useful.
http://destroyfx.smartelectronix.com/extras/

it's the only one i know, but there might be others...
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