Legalized Drugs ???
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
China will follow globalist policies, just as they always do. both the UN and Rockefellor have called China the "model government".
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
stardust wrote:Obama must change it he promised it.
And it does not make the difference if you legalize this or that.
In the same way that drugs has been part of human culture, the abuse and the persecution is part of it.
Neither the legalization bloviating nor the prosecution bla bla will help.
In case humans are free they are fully responsible.
In case they are not free....
actually, Obama has already spoken about some campaign promises that he's already broken. his response? that those words were "just words", not to be taken seriously. seriously...
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
Change That We Can Believe In......................actually he wasn't being misleading at all.
Change ( $ ) is what we will be left with at the rate of spending we are seeing.
For all of those who think that Liberals and Republicans are different, we now have all of the proof we need. They campaign on fundamental differences, but all bets are off when they get to DC and find out who their real bosses are.......World Banking Giants.
Even while they preach gloom and doom they are fighting over the scraps to send money to their own pet projects in their own districts just so they can be voted back in again.
It's up to the American people to watch and learn and vote all of these clowns out of here and install a new party that keeps it promises and changes the corrupt laws we haved lived under for decades.
How can we be expected to trust these guys to count our money when they can't even count votes ?? Just look at Minnesota, they are re counting the votes again after 3 months.....
I think in 2010 many of these clowns in the House and Senate will be voted out.
I consider that to be the most important election in recent decades.
It will send a strong message to DC and the banking giants, and then 2 years later voting in a new political party would be our chance to get our rights back, as promised in the Constitution....get rid of the IRS, ACLU.....that's my top 2 enemies at the moment.
Our Congressman Harry Reid asked us to send him an email or letter of what we considered our most important issue.........I told him I wanted my XITE-1 and then re directed him to Holger, Juergen and Ralf at SC. It's the truth.....if I had that and Solaris I could hide out for months and wouldn't even need to be bothered with the depressing news of gloom and doom and Politicains stealing and lying...
Change ( $ ) is what we will be left with at the rate of spending we are seeing.
For all of those who think that Liberals and Republicans are different, we now have all of the proof we need. They campaign on fundamental differences, but all bets are off when they get to DC and find out who their real bosses are.......World Banking Giants.
Even while they preach gloom and doom they are fighting over the scraps to send money to their own pet projects in their own districts just so they can be voted back in again.
It's up to the American people to watch and learn and vote all of these clowns out of here and install a new party that keeps it promises and changes the corrupt laws we haved lived under for decades.
How can we be expected to trust these guys to count our money when they can't even count votes ?? Just look at Minnesota, they are re counting the votes again after 3 months.....
I think in 2010 many of these clowns in the House and Senate will be voted out.
I consider that to be the most important election in recent decades.
It will send a strong message to DC and the banking giants, and then 2 years later voting in a new political party would be our chance to get our rights back, as promised in the Constitution....get rid of the IRS, ACLU.....that's my top 2 enemies at the moment.
Our Congressman Harry Reid asked us to send him an email or letter of what we considered our most important issue.........I told him I wanted my XITE-1 and then re directed him to Holger, Juergen and Ralf at SC. It's the truth.....if I had that and Solaris I could hide out for months and wouldn't even need to be bothered with the depressing news of gloom and doom and Politicains stealing and lying...
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siriusbliss
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Re: Legalized Drugs ???
Well, sure we can vote all we want, but the voting machines are all rigged anyways, so....
Doom and gloom away
Since I'm in the process of getting laid off officially next week, then I can presume that fate is at hand and Xite will arrive before Music Messe, so I can spend the next two months JUST working on my own music rather than taking care of everyone elses' messes.
Getting too old for this - maybe I should take up smoking pot - oh wait, Schwarzenneger won't let me
Greg
Doom and gloom away
Since I'm in the process of getting laid off officially next week, then I can presume that fate is at hand and Xite will arrive before Music Messe, so I can spend the next two months JUST working on my own music rather than taking care of everyone elses' messes.
Getting too old for this - maybe I should take up smoking pot - oh wait, Schwarzenneger won't let me
Greg
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 017065.php
February 26, 2009
Just two days after President Obama's inauguration, the Drug Enforcement Administration raided a medical marijuana dispensary in northern California. The move was at odds with Obama's policy, at least as it was articulated during the campaign.
Today, we received some welcome clarification.
Attorney General Eric Holder said at a press conference Wednesday that the Justice Department will no longer raid medical marijuana clubs that are established legally under state law. His declaration is a fulfillment of a campaign promise by President Barack Obama, and marks a major shift from the previous administration.
February 26, 2009
Just two days after President Obama's inauguration, the Drug Enforcement Administration raided a medical marijuana dispensary in northern California. The move was at odds with Obama's policy, at least as it was articulated during the campaign.
Today, we received some welcome clarification.
Attorney General Eric Holder said at a press conference Wednesday that the Justice Department will no longer raid medical marijuana clubs that are established legally under state law. His declaration is a fulfillment of a campaign promise by President Barack Obama, and marks a major shift from the previous administration.
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siriusbliss
- Posts: 3118
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Cupertino, California US
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Re: Legalized Drugs ???
Meanwhile there was a $2Mil major pot bust today of a 'distributor'.braincell wrote:http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 017065.php
February 26, 2009
Just two days after President Obama's inauguration, the Drug Enforcement Administration raided a medical marijuana dispensary in northern California. The move was at odds with Obama's policy, at least as it was articulated during the campaign.
Today, we received some welcome clarification.
Attorney General Eric Holder said at a press conference Wednesday that the Justice Department will no longer raid medical marijuana clubs that are established legally under state law. His declaration is a fulfillment of a campaign promise by President Barack Obama, and marks a major shift from the previous administration.
G
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
they are LIARS.
hard for some to believe that it could even be possible...how foolish...
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
I've had a falling out with a close friend of many years over this subject: he took the stance of it being a fight we had to fight for our rights, quoting Jefferson & other "founding fathers". I stated that I thought medical cards were a a purposeful farce on the side of the govt. And while the side of the 'family movement' has plenty of legitimate points in favor of legalization, choosing to exploit the grey area of Medical Marijuana for personal gain isn't actually helping the situation as much as he thought. But he's from a small N. California community and has lived the life where his income has always at least been partially from Mary since...well I have no idea. Certainly as long as I've known him.
I mentioned that still felt that that it's intentionally been engineered to be a complete mess, the whole thing kept as a huge grey area. He reeled off the names of lawyers he knew that would 'fight' for your case as a card member. My response is that fighting for the right to a reduced sentence isn't really gaining any rights at all, and that our system is perfectly content with the shifting of money towards the lawyers as part of the overall equation.
My friend was very insistent that our city police will respect a card carrier, enabling moving around town with small quantities. But I suggested that "Jurisdiction" is constantly entering the discussion with local, state & federal laws in conflict in wording & intent. Making Medical Mary Jane a very convenient 'grey area' on the side of the card carrier because you've got some illusion of being legitimate, and grey on the side of the law with respect to what a particular level of govt. in your area chooses to focus on. It seems to me that quite often the things a city/county/state will announce *seem* to say "we're going to start softening up on this" but those things often fall out of the scope of their normal activities anyway.
For instance I've noticed one jurisdiction will say they won't target growing for card carriers (under a given quantity of material), and go after trafficking instead (think State police who largely pull people over during interstate transport anyway). Effectively feeding a small stream of cash & jailable trafficers into the 'system', and fitting nicely within the normal routines of the average State Trooper (state version of a traffic cop).
Then another jurisdiction (let's say the city cops) will state that they will "look the other way" or perhaps only assess a small fine against people who possess small quantities, and will 'respect card carriers' (aka medical pot) even further. So in large there's some comfort given to the idea of being able to leave your house with a bit of personal, or perhaps just sit around the house with it. But the supply side is still either under extremely strict control (marinol even perhaps?). It seems that most cities still won't tolerate cafes or methods of purchasing that don't involve getting it directly from a pharmacist and the few that do allow a small amount of over-the-counter action still fall prey to FBI raids and other such fun.
Expectially noteworthy is the US Supreme Court's explicitly shooting down any support for Medical Mary Jane at the Federal level several years ago (which they've done each time it's been elevated to that level).
Imo this is the real cincher for Medical Pot because in areas (like Oakland, CA) where city & county will largely ignore you, and state cops won't venture unless you're in transit in or out of the city, the FBI and other federal institutions tend to perform information farming & routinely move in on the cafes and especially the doctors who are prescribing. In most cases they don't do anything beyond confiscating anything they can, including all the records on everyone currently carrying a card. One might wonder what information is available to the next Trooper that pulls you over, or when you're down in LA hanging out and someone runs your plates...
To which my friend replies "You can't be a p***y if you're fighting for your rights." I hadn't expected that particular conversation to elevate up to the level of a fistfight (especially given how long I've known him). I wasn't exactly trying to take a position "opposite" to legalization and duke it out for the conclusion so I just took my leave.
I mentioned that still felt that that it's intentionally been engineered to be a complete mess, the whole thing kept as a huge grey area. He reeled off the names of lawyers he knew that would 'fight' for your case as a card member. My response is that fighting for the right to a reduced sentence isn't really gaining any rights at all, and that our system is perfectly content with the shifting of money towards the lawyers as part of the overall equation.
My friend was very insistent that our city police will respect a card carrier, enabling moving around town with small quantities. But I suggested that "Jurisdiction" is constantly entering the discussion with local, state & federal laws in conflict in wording & intent. Making Medical Mary Jane a very convenient 'grey area' on the side of the card carrier because you've got some illusion of being legitimate, and grey on the side of the law with respect to what a particular level of govt. in your area chooses to focus on. It seems to me that quite often the things a city/county/state will announce *seem* to say "we're going to start softening up on this" but those things often fall out of the scope of their normal activities anyway.
For instance I've noticed one jurisdiction will say they won't target growing for card carriers (under a given quantity of material), and go after trafficking instead (think State police who largely pull people over during interstate transport anyway). Effectively feeding a small stream of cash & jailable trafficers into the 'system', and fitting nicely within the normal routines of the average State Trooper (state version of a traffic cop).
Then another jurisdiction (let's say the city cops) will state that they will "look the other way" or perhaps only assess a small fine against people who possess small quantities, and will 'respect card carriers' (aka medical pot) even further. So in large there's some comfort given to the idea of being able to leave your house with a bit of personal, or perhaps just sit around the house with it. But the supply side is still either under extremely strict control (marinol even perhaps?). It seems that most cities still won't tolerate cafes or methods of purchasing that don't involve getting it directly from a pharmacist and the few that do allow a small amount of over-the-counter action still fall prey to FBI raids and other such fun.
Expectially noteworthy is the US Supreme Court's explicitly shooting down any support for Medical Mary Jane at the Federal level several years ago (which they've done each time it's been elevated to that level).
Imo this is the real cincher for Medical Pot because in areas (like Oakland, CA) where city & county will largely ignore you, and state cops won't venture unless you're in transit in or out of the city, the FBI and other federal institutions tend to perform information farming & routinely move in on the cafes and especially the doctors who are prescribing. In most cases they don't do anything beyond confiscating anything they can, including all the records on everyone currently carrying a card. One might wonder what information is available to the next Trooper that pulls you over, or when you're down in LA hanging out and someone runs your plates...
To which my friend replies "You can't be a p***y if you're fighting for your rights." I hadn't expected that particular conversation to elevate up to the level of a fistfight (especially given how long I've known him). I wasn't exactly trying to take a position "opposite" to legalization and duke it out for the conclusion so I just took my leave.
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
legalization is the wrong word for something which has been made criminal, but actually is not a crime, a violent offense agaist the person or property of another, so i definitely see where you're coming from valis. your friend is also correct in finding the issue to be a basic rights issue.
jfwiw, according to the actual document of agreement that is the social contract of the united states of america government, it's constitution, the highest(no pun intended
) official in the land is the local sherriff, not the fbi. permission is required for the fbi to investigate, so it really is a local issue. the federal government is actually excercising power that is not rightfully it's own, which is criminal activity. this is not an issue of "laws" or supreme court decisions. there were laws claiming slaves to be less than human, and allowing slavery as legal. these laws were changed because they were wrong in principle, not because of any group's whims. as i've stated before, rights are rights, even when denied or trampled on or are inconvienient or don't fit standards of society. offenses against these very real rights is criminal, regardless of the high office that commits them, king senate, president, magistrate or judge.
jfwiw, according to the actual document of agreement that is the social contract of the united states of america government, it's constitution, the highest(no pun intended
) official in the land is the local sherriff, not the fbi. permission is required for the fbi to investigate, so it really is a local issue. the federal government is actually excercising power that is not rightfully it's own, which is criminal activity. this is not an issue of "laws" or supreme court decisions. there were laws claiming slaves to be less than human, and allowing slavery as legal. these laws were changed because they were wrong in principle, not because of any group's whims. as i've stated before, rights are rights, even when denied or trampled on or are inconvienient or don't fit standards of society. offenses against these very real rights is criminal, regardless of the high office that commits them, king senate, president, magistrate or judge.Re: Legalized Drugs ???
I agree about the issue of rights, I just disagreed that med. mj cards are the battleground where this particular war will be won. If one were to do anything it would be to try to challenge that in the federal courts again, but really I don't think he has any real goal of doing that by carrying a card... For most of the people I know it's more like a status symbol for a 'loophole' to 'stick it to the man', than it is about arguing that their extreme medical condition means they need nature's remedies to ease their pain (since they are usually quite healthy & functional). In less heated circumstances that would just be called hypocrisy...
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
good man.
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
On re-reading this page, I notice that I neglected to state that the argument with my friend above was really about him trying to talk me into getting a card. I refused mostly because the people I knew in Cali who had them (circa 99-2002) had a lot of problems with traffic police in N. Cali (outside of Oakland) after the Feds came in and confiscated the records of doctors in the area who wrote scripts to get the cards. I'm sure after years of throwing 'raves' and drum&bass events that I'm no unknown to the powers that be, but I don't see where the carrying the card gains me any 'rights' as things stand now.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think Prohibition was repealed by city mayors 'looking the other way' and 'private club' licenses (some of these still exist in Texas as a carryover from that period, much like cannabis clubs today). Thinking that these things are 'gains' is equivalent (in my thinking) to being told that I will be "allowed" to do something and thinking that's granting me a "right".
Rights aren't privileges that can be revoked, at least in my understanding.
Also as a corollary, I did notice that in Texas many of the people who bootlegged successfully during prohibition actually wound up licenses that gave their families liquor stores years down the line...so there may be some gains to be had that I'm not prescient enough to see...
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think Prohibition was repealed by city mayors 'looking the other way' and 'private club' licenses (some of these still exist in Texas as a carryover from that period, much like cannabis clubs today). Thinking that these things are 'gains' is equivalent (in my thinking) to being told that I will be "allowed" to do something and thinking that's granting me a "right".
Rights aren't privileges that can be revoked, at least in my understanding.
Also as a corollary, I did notice that in Texas many of the people who bootlegged successfully during prohibition actually wound up licenses that gave their families liquor stores years down the line...so there may be some gains to be had that I'm not prescient enough to see...
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
wtf are you talking about?
the federal government is the main importer, if that's what you mean...
the federal government is the main importer, if that's what you mean...
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siriusbliss
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Re: Legalized Drugs ???
Yup, 3rd largest importer next to oil and autos (if I read the articles correctly).garyb wrote:wtf are you talking about?
the federal government is the main importer, if that's what you mean...
The pharmaceutical companies 'legal' (WAY more addictive) drugs are trying their damnedest to keep up.
Greg
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
there's a big difference between constitutional and actual government. sherriffs don't have automated armies and neutron bombs.stardust wrote:garyb wrote:wtf are you talking about?
the federal government is the main importer, if that's what you mean...
what i said was that TECHNICALLY, the local sherriff is the highest elected authority. the American system is based on local control, not federal. power is SUPPOSED to flow from individual to town to city to county to state to federal, not the other way around. the context was about the abuse of power with the feds overrulling state and local law, when they had not the authority.
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
Here's a good example of Hypocracy.............
Bank executives are trying to keep old clients and get new clients by having these Lavish parties with money that they didn't ask for....they just hired Sheryl Crow, Chicago and Earth Wind and Fire, provided a shit load of money for the workers and provided extra income for businesses........ spending money right?
Then John Kerry does a big speech on how these greedy bankers are having a great time on the taxpayers money >>>>
Excuse me Senator......I think we have been paying for your parties for how many decades??
The Feds are way out of control, all of them.
We need to vote these clowns out in 2010.
If we don't it's our fault.....
Bank executives are trying to keep old clients and get new clients by having these Lavish parties with money that they didn't ask for....they just hired Sheryl Crow, Chicago and Earth Wind and Fire, provided a shit load of money for the workers and provided extra income for businesses........ spending money right?
Then John Kerry does a big speech on how these greedy bankers are having a great time on the taxpayers money >>>>
Excuse me Senator......I think we have been paying for your parties for how many decades??
The Feds are way out of control, all of them.
We need to vote these clowns out in 2010.
If we don't it's our fault.....
Re: Legalized Drugs ???
- Substance abuse treated as a behavioral problem rather than being criminalized?
- The legal system not 'managed' by publicly traded corporations valued based on how many jails are being built? with all the actual costs of running the facilities charged back to the tax-base?
- Corporations not given 'value' based not on how much profit can be 'expanded' and assets consumed?
- Pharmaceutical conglomerateconcerns would be secondary to health choices based on the value of life, compassion and honor?
- Companies honoring ethical and moral obligations?
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siriusbliss
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Re: Legalized Drugs ???
valis wrote:What HAVE you guys been smoking?
- Substance abuse treated as a behavioral problem rather than being criminalized?
- The legal system not 'managed' by publicly traded corporations valued based on how many jails are being built? with all the actual costs of running the facilities charged back to the tax-base?
- Corporations not given 'value' based not on how much profit can be 'expanded' and assets consumed?
- Pharmaceutical conglomerateconcerns would be secondary to health choices based on the value of life, compassion and honor?
- Companies honoring ethical and moral obligations?
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next to nothing
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Re: Legalized Drugs ???
yeah, it's a secondary issue.
if people understood how the primary issues impacted their selfish secondary issues, this earth really would be the paradise of plenty that it is.
if people understood how the primary issues impacted their selfish secondary issues, this earth really would be the paradise of plenty that it is.