VDAT

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue May 14, 2002 6:11 am

Is anybody here using VDAT? How good it is? Does it take some DSPs? How much DSPs? Clicks? Pops? Crackles?

I would really like to give pulsar all the audio, is it worth it?

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Tue May 14, 2002 8:43 am

I don't even use it, prefer Logic... all in one place...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue May 14, 2002 10:39 am

This statement coming from you is pretty radical. So let's say i have a sequencer, that doesn't do ANY audio, only midi sequencing? Something like fruityloops, and i wanted to add audio track to it and record live takes of guitar without Logic (or cubase...) ? You still wouldn't use VDAT? Using something like wavelab over VDAT?

Is it just your way of working or it is because it is really not that useable or usefull?

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2002-05-14 16:17 ]

Chrisznix · Post by **Chrisznix** » Tue May 21, 2002 2:08 am

Hi Marcus!

I just own Logic Audio Silver and was wondering if i could use the VDATs together with my TripleDAT plugin as an replacement too. I´m not ready with the configs (too little time), but the main problem could be Syncing a sequencer and TDAT/VDAT. Could be easier with step sequencers like SB 404 (good one too!).

I don´t like the LA Audio editing - the TDAT´s is IMHO much more comfortable. And i don´t want to leave the power of these products untouched - just like you don´t want to, right ?

If i get a good Project running, i´ll post it here for downloading.

Bye!
Chris

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Tue May 21, 2002 2:48 am

hi Marcus

If you want more info about the VDat try this: http://shop.creamware.de/forum/Dsp_Syst ... 7D864}.htm . Perhaps this one will help you to make a decision.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue May 21, 2002 6:58 am

Yeah, thank samplaire, i've seen it on creamware's forum. The problem that they talk about seems related to mac. i'm on PC. But the other thread i think talked more of what i wanted to know. The guy have a scope (15dsp) and it took 6 VDAT to use 1 bar in the dsp meter. This is what i wanted to know, since i only got 7dsp (luna+pulsar1) i don't want to use all dsp for audio recording obviously.

And i really think this would work with my way of working.

Have any of you have tough about this? Probably... But if a record audio on pulsar side, and don't use any vst (wich is true for me anyway) I can use for example Kontakt in standalone mode with multioutput asio, deactivate asio totaly in Logic, and record everything in vdat. Or also use Fruity in asio for traking at the same time as logic for midi (syncing logic and fruity on vrc-128 MTC) and still have a place to setup VST (fruity?).

This is a lot more close to what i wanted to acheive right from the start with all those dsp. Having sequencer that really only well, sequece midi, and having Pulsar (VDAT) take care of all audio.

Anyway, i think i'm gonna get it very very soon, maybe this week...

BTW, i think VDAT is gonna do marvelous job plugged directly on the 8 busses out of stm2448.

If i get it this week i'll gladly share all my experiences of it here with you guys.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Tue May 21, 2002 9:01 am

My concern about VDAT is: "Can you program it?" I mean, can you make it give out this midi comand at this point and that midi comand at that point, or will you have to actually do everything durring mixdown?

Immanuel

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Tue May 21, 2002 9:28 am

I'm currently migrating to Logic Plat 5.1.2, still using tripleDAT 3.06 & 3.11b for my current projects until I get really proficient with Logic. I must say that the learning curve on Plat 5 is quite challenging. I agree, tripleDAT's interface is much more friendlier and easier to use! I was also considering on VDAT as to record 24/44.1-96 and dither down to 16/44.1 on tripleDAT for final CD-R Mastering - cost effective as well! Although I got a steal-of-a-deal with Logic at a local music store and finally succumbed to it!

It would be awesome if CW would refresh tripleDAT's interface and use VDAT's engine!
Also, add more sync methods (SMPTE, etc.), more stable, tripleSKINS (user definable), user-updatable CD-R driver library, extensive automation, just to name a few.
I think VDAT's specs are quite impressive. Adding tripleDAT's environment as an interface will make it even more a powerful audio recording/post mastering tool! And, it could very well stand head to head with ProTools and Nuendo.

Logic rocks but you definitely need time to invest with it!

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Wed May 22, 2002 5:04 am

I'm actually looking forward to using VDAT for bouncing tracks to audio.

My setup for recording audio is actually my weakness.

I have n-Track Studio which certainly records multiple channel audio through ASIO, but I actually can't seem to get it to do that without clicking like a son of a bitch.

The normal Wave Destination works fine, but unless you're ready to mix down there and then it's a bit painful trying to do multiple tracks.

But with VDAT I can bounce all my tracks to separate audio files at once...well maybe that only really sounds exciting to me.

OK, I'll shut up now.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sun May 26, 2002 8:20 am

Hi to all, i finnaly got my VDAT. And it work like a charm, i can play 32 audio track at the same times without ANY problem at all, and the sound quality is exceptional. It doesn't load DSP at all (almost) and integrate well with any wav editor (wavelab). I must say, it's not that easy to use though, the VRC-128 it necessary to use it correctly.

There is lot of differents routing possible: You can connect it after the 8 busses of the STM2448 to record a sub mix for example, but i found it's most easy to just plug it in before any audio source that goes in the mixer. This awy, you can play whatever you need, record it on the fly, and play it back. And everything you record will be without any effects, so you have complete liberty afterward to enhance the sound with any effect. Once the synths are recorded, you can remove them and put MORE effects in your mixer.

One thing i would like, is more precise positioning (manualy entering a smpte position?) instead of hitting the forward or rewind keys. I still have to understand fully the art of recording with this. I suppose that working with real adat is the same thing. It a whole new concept for me working with tapes.

So if you had doubt and you think that it would work for you this kind of precedure, well, don't doubt no more. The VDAT is up to the job!
[edit]
Found a bug... No more than 8 tracks record at the same time for now, until bug fix

[/edit]

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2002-05-29 09:56 ]

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Sun May 26, 2002 11:10 am

Congrats! I too, am considering it, on top of my Logic Plat 5 and tripleDAT. Perhaps sell my Logic once I get it, but.. I think it's worth learning multiple DAWs. I'm beginning to get attached to Logic anyway.

Now, if only Creamware would fuse tripleDAT's environment (tirpleSKIN or tripleMASK) on top of VDAT, That would be a dream wouldn't it?!!

I'm currently working on a letter to CW to see if they would consider such a CreamWare Concept DAW.

Here's an excerpt of my list:

Quantum Fusion 24 (TripleDAT's future incarnation)

- newly revamped code specifically designed for CreamWare's DSP hardware and SFP X.
- Option of a "Classic Mode"
- modular design
- 16bit/44.1KHZ to 24bit/96KHz rates
- Utilising VDAT's engine core
- user-configurable "TripleSKIN or TripleMASK". Ability to assign independent colours and customable layouts
- Creative users are now free to create their own TripleSKINS; make it look like ProTools, Nuendo, etc. via Chameleon Interface Technology
- Tool Rack: a palette of tools for creating new controls within tripleDAT/Quantum: Create new faders, knobs, meters, etc.
- new CD-R/W and DVD-R/W authoring suite
- user-updatable CD-R/W and DVD-R/W driver library
- recordable automation
- optimised post production tools for audio, film, and video (24bit dithering, surrround 5.1 & 7.1, etc.)
- multiple sync lock methods (SMPTE, etc.)
- MIDI controls for utilising external MIDI controllers such as Emagic's HUI, or Steinberg's Huston
- Effects are handled by SCOPE Fusion Platform
- An Extensive MIDI Central module within SFP
- extensive UNDO Database
- sequencer module
- MSRP: $1000.00USD - I'd grab one in a heartbeat!!!

If only I have enough grey matter, I'd even volunteer at CW and start coding this puppy!

Salut!
YOUR CreamWare Quantum Fusion Project Team

(Sounds awesome, doesn't it?!)

[ADDENDUM]
I'm glad to know that VDAT doesn't take that much DSP!
Now, where's my bloody credit card?!!!

Skoal!
Z

[ This Message was edited by: The Z Station on 2002-05-26 13:19 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon May 27, 2002 4:22 am

I've done so more extended testing with VDAT and i must add this:

If you use some sampling software like giga that use disk streaming, that will reduce greatly the number of tracks you can record at a time. Since almost all disk io bandwidth is already used by giga. So to really be efficient, you'd better use a separate physical disk to acheive high tracks count.

BTW, VDAT is declared 'another device with known bug'. It cannot record on more than 8 channels actually. Because of this, Creamware annonced an update patch later on. I am very disapointed right now. Hope they gonna have a fix very soon. I mean, VERY VERY soon, this is no update, this is a PAID device!

This was my info update

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2002-05-29 09:54 ]

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Mon May 27, 2002 5:23 am

I can't wait to score that. I think it will make like much easier for me with only a midi sequencer and VSTi to think about I can skip the multi-track audio software altogether. WOOHOO!....well maybe.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon May 27, 2002 7:04 am

Well caleb, that was my goal, and i'm able to acheive it with VDAT.... Plain midi sequencer, and i'm ready to go!

Chrisznix · Post by **Chrisznix** » Mon May 27, 2002 7:54 am

Hi!
Yes, i´m trying to get into that VDAT stuff, too.
Does anybody know if there is a possibility to use TDAT as and Sample editor when using 24 bit? I guess TDAT will cut the least significant bits then, right?
Another one: What midi-only sequencers do you use? I even thought of Fruityloops, because these patterns are easy to understand if you´ve played around with those old ProTracker on the Amiga...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon May 27, 2002 10:08 am

Hi, i know nothing about TDAT...

And the midi only sequencer is mainly Fruity, but i also use Logic. I know it as asio for audio, but i don't like depending on it. To much asio routing and rerouting... It also introduce some latency when you route thru asio. Fruity is cool for automating and controling all SFP devices etc...

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Mon May 27, 2002 11:00 am

TDAT only has a very minimum MIDI support just to sync via MIDIClock. TDAT's designed for audio recording.

Jem · Post by **Jem** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:01 am

Vdat is in theory a very good alternative to harddiskrecording software like Logic, Cubase, Nuendo etc...

Great thing about the Vdat is, I have much more control over the sound and recorded dry signals just sounds very good. This shows how good the converting job is done.

It is very promissing indeed, but till now Vdat does not work well:
1. It can not record more than 8 tracks (pc and apple, They are busy with a patch to solve this problem.

2. Positioning is very bad, hope they will use the positive point of harddisk sequencers like logic, you can manually enter the positioning, or maybe learn from the Fostex D160 serie hardware (there they use a wheel to position on the 10th or 100th second accurate)

3. Saving and creating tapes could be easier and stable done. Right now you have to create just on map and save the song in this.

4. Vdat does not work well when you connect this to the bus outs or the direct outs. At least not with me. It just freezes.

5. According to the manual when you create create a tape (you create a map and a file to save the wav data) the display should show the name of the file. Well it does not.

6. The locator buttons do not work as they are descriped in the manual, actually they don't work at all. But if they could use the comments as mentioned at point 2 these would not be needed.

If Creamware could do something about these points it will be a killer application at a killer price.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:40 pm

I got the prerelease patch from Ingo, and here the result so far :

1. i can record 16 tracks simultaneously easily. Playback of 24 tracks is also easy. Recording more than 16 put my hard disk to it's knee. Normal.

2. Positioning is still the same, that will probably will not change soon.

3. Saving and creating tapes now work correctly.

4. Never had problem with this, even before the patch...

5. This thing is working for me, but when you click in setting->edit (where it should open wavlab for ex., it sometimes doesn't open)

6. The locator buttons do work exactly as they are described in the manual.

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2002-06-10 18:18 ]

alabama · Post by **alabama** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:06 pm

I have a basic/novice question that I'd really like feedback on:

I'd like to know what VDAT users think of the job that VDAT does in incorporating the DSP-based effects in recording. When I listen "live" to voice with MasterVerb, it sounds great within Pulsar. But, when I try and record that sound, either downstream with Sonar, or XTC-integrated through Cubase, the quality is much less than what I get from listening live in Pulsar. Has anybody else experienced this? It sounds like VDAT might provide more of a complete package via Pulsar, and the missing link, in my opinion, is having a high-quality method for incorporating effects into the final mix. Does VDAT do a better job with recording DSP-based effects than Sonar/Cubase/or the like? Please tell me it does! Unfortunately I can't give it a try myself without going ahead and buying it. Advice from VDAT users is invaluable. Thanks.