It's DONE.. check out the mix

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:46 am

This file has expired and is no longer available here. The owner of the topic can re-upload the file, or post a link to an off-site file. <a name="planetz-tag"></a>Genre: just some cool urban music <a name="planetz-tag"></a>Uses: Pulsar Mixers copyright © 2002 Ken Suguro _____________________________________ I got wild on the drums.. did 4 different kinds of mastering on it. I over did and it messed part of the kick/bass communication. I hate that. Also you can hear the drums go through caroline radiofuzzphase or whatever it's called.
It always amazes me how the punchiness of the bassdrumm can really vividly bring out, or diminish the presented kick/bass groove. That makes compressing almost a compositional act.. And Earth Wind and Fire gets it right all the time..

During the chorus, piano and strings are convoluted in cooledit with an impulse I made by shooting bursts of broadband noise from my Event 20/20 bas, and then miking pure left and right. Much easier than pressing play, and then miking. Of course, then these signals were mixed with the original. I wanted the mix to move a couple of steps back during the chorus, so the vocals and chouruses would have space. I also put in some filtered noise to give it that "outside" spacious feel. Not sure if you can hear it. It should come out a bit more after I master it.

Anyway, compare it with the "here's what I'm workin' on" post and tell me what ya think. Phewee, that was 3 days straight on this piece.

borg · Post by **borg** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:04 am

well, ken, i think you need to give it a rest for a few days, and then start with some fresh ears. to me the unfinished version sounded much 'crispier', fuller of sound, especially kick and piano, snare too.
funcky grooves indeed which could fill every dance floor, but to achieve that, i would go for another mix...

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:46 am

wow.. really? I think my ears must be really tired then.. But true, the drums from the original sounded much more crispier.. part of the reason why re-made the drums. I also kept the vocal "space" in mid while mixing, the emptiness could come from that but I think you've accounted for that also.

I'll let it rest for a few days and see. Thanx for pointing it out tho! It's so easy to have them ears overworked.

borg · Post by **borg** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:11 am

well, i'm not a mixer/engineer, and have hardly worked with vocals up to now, so i really can't tell what the track will sound like with vocals. i A/B listened to the tracks with iTunes, no eq or whatever, and the first version sounded, well, better

imho.

had a quick listen again, and it's definitely the quick version for me (because of the kick and snares), but then again, music is all about subjective feelings, not?

_________________
andy
maybe a bit lazy but willing to learn

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2002-03-14 07:17 ]

Post by **hubird** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:18 pm

Hi Ken, I must confess that I hate this kind of music oops

I never know whereto I should move my feelings with this kinda music.
Sorry for that

But you had some nice postings to mine, so here are just some thoughts.
For me this version is really a better mix than the start song.
It now has somehow a 'radio sound', and TMO that's the way this style should sound.
But, apart from the complexity, a floorfiller it can't be, because of the sound.
Two things:
1. why don't you take a streight TR909 kick?
Yours is to much 'cardboard', and doesn't get through the mix.
With the 909 kick you have as mutch 'kick' in the bass as you want, and the body does the rest of the show.
Just eq the kick towards your basssynth.
2. I would say, the balance of the musical parts is ok (given a replaced kick).
I think your song needs some quality reverbering on several parts.
Try a bit long delaytime, lowcut the bass part (cut below 400-800 Hz), give some predelay (25-60 ms).
This way you can lay some (very) thin 'sky' over and behind the song, even the basssynth often can profit from this.
You can try this by applying this reverb just over this mix, as a hole...!
It works, coz the lowcut eq keeps the song tight in the low part of it.

Well, probably you now this all by yourself.
BTW, there is a sequence I *did* like: it sounds like a cylophone or something, just before the half of the piece.
I'm sure, if you take that open piece (8-16 measures?) apart, cycle it, change the synth programs and replace them by some interesting sounds that can have the same musical funktion, and play around for a while just with the filt freq, with mutch resonance applied.
With some rithmic delays over these playparts I can hear in my head a nice groove.
Hey Ken, make something like this and give it a post?
Will make fun!

LTBM!

BTW: put some distortion on the bassdrum, and see what happens!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2002-03-15 17:23 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:34 pm

Well, hubird, you're probably right. This kind of music sure ain't for everyone. Or maybe no one at all!

Somehow, when I laid down the tracks, this is what I got.

About the kick.. dunno about you.. the 909 sound does have its great characters, but it does get kind of old after a decade of heavy use. So I haven't used any straight 909s lately. But now that you've mensioned it, maybe I should use some 909 sounds in my next tune! I tried, but I guess I can't run from the 909!

But of course it's kind of obvious that you won't be able to help this tune much by using a 909 becuase essentially, its strucutre is too old. hehe.

Hey, but it only gives me one more "old" tune to sample from!

Thanx for the comments hubird.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-03-15 21:37 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 9:59 am

After such deep advices your fellows had given to you, it’s difficult for me to say anything else. But anyway I think in this mix drums sound a bit too centred in the middle range colours.

The song is very nice; I particularly like the work of your bottom bass.

_________________
Music is the most powerful language in the world!

[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2002-03-16 10:00 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 5:55 pm

Cool! A word about bass from the bass master himself! I'm smilin'.

thanx for listenin' Nestor. Have you checked some of my other stuff too?

ontik · Post by **ontik** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:12 am

Firstly sorry to all that I don't post more reviews but I have a shitty connection (Can't get a better one in my locale) and downloading is very time consuming. ADSL is coming soon.

Ken I am wondering how long you have been working with digital music? I'll explain why if you answer.

You music theory seems to be more advanced than mine for sure. But I reckon your right, there does seem to be a excess of compression evident in this mix.

I am thinking that this could do with an atmospheric running behind it but make it ultra subtle, only adding effect so not really there to be heard. Know what I mean?
Just a bit of psychoacoustic warmth as it feels a little ....?? Hollow??? Even add another richer layer to the stab bassline you've got ther might do it.

Before you do I reckon that the sounds could do with a little more separation in order to fit it in

Otherwise there is a cool groove in there, just needs something to bring it to life.

Keep the drums though and just re-work 'em

Keep it up.

PS I find it interesting that you spend so long on your tunes. I find that between 6 and 20 hours bring out my best results. IE I'm done in a day or two and if its two they are always one after the other. Curious??

[ This Message was edited by: ontik on 2002-03-19 04:16 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:40 am

Ken I am wondering how long you have been working with digital music? I'll explain why if you answer.

Well, it's been about.. 5 year since I started doing multitrack on PC, about 12 years since working with a synth.

PS I find it interesting that you spend so long on your tunes. I find that between 6 and 20 hours bring out my best results. IE I'm done in a day or two and if its two they are always one after the other. Curious??

Well I try to do things straight, to keep concentration, but with this tune it was in bits and pieces. (strange scheduling) You're right, tho, it's better if I work straight through.
The main problem with this seems to come from mixning in 2 runs.. like I do half the tracks in 1 run, and then the other half in the second run.. It seems to be easy to loose track that way. (I ran out of DSP power) I really need another card else the totality of the piece gets screwed.

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-03-19 05:41 ]

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:07 am

I hear the group Imagination's sound here(It's just an Illuuuuuusion...)

128Kb rips are not good for criticising mixes. Too many high harmonics lost.

This tune is kinda linear and that's stylistically okay. Can you try and add some real brass (I heard the synbrass)to the augmented chord at about 3:30, kinda building up to it? Or is the singer in there?

I suspect that awful drum won't be as present when the singer is mixed in there but it is worth tweaking.

I have to post this tune I did about 10 years back. Sounds almost the same as yours, Ken!

_________________
Paul R. Martin

I think I may get the hang of this after all!

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2002-03-19 06:07 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Mar 19, 2002 7:54 am

hehe, awful drums is the word.

But that build up is pretty much the turning point of the piece so I guess it's a good idea to do something to underline it.

A tune you did 10 years back? I'm very curious to hear it! This tune was supposed to capture the brand new post 80's feel so maybe it succeeded?

Post by **garyb** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:47 pm

it does what it's supposed to do.(you knew that)