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Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:11 am
by asktoby
I'm trying to run an ASIO live-looper called Giada.
When I launch it, I get a BSOD:
Code: Select all
BSOD Stop Code: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
What failed: ScopePci.sys
I don't know if this is a bug with Giada or with the Scope drivers.
Can anyone else get it to run?
Steps to reproduce
https://github.com/monocasual/giada/issues/465
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:22 am
by asktoby
I'm running Scope 7.0.1705
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:47 am
by garyb
try running Giada in win8 compatibility mode.
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:53 am
by asktoby
Same BSOD I'm afraid.
Does it run for you?
(it's a 3MB free download)
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:56 am
by garyb
there are apps that initialize the driver in ways that Scope cannot respond to. this would seem to be one of them.
perhaps it will work with ASIO4all.
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:52 am
by asktoby
Are you suggesting I try using ASIO4all as a shim between Giada and Scope?
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:42 am
by garyb
sure, why not?
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:36 am
by asktoby
Interesting development:
Newly built PC and installed a different application, "Ricoh Theta",
https://support.theta360.com/en/download/pcmac/, which causes the same ScopePci.sys BSOD when it tries to set up a connection to ASIO.
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:12 am
by valis
The original response from GaryB still applies.
The only products on the market that work like Scope aren't too far off. Presently I would make that to be TDM & UAD. UAD won't allow you to change samplerates on the fly, and their native DAW is also set to a single fixed buffer size. They code the hardware and software, and are making their PDC issues minimal when doing only 1 set of calculations, one would expect that it will improve later. TDM has improved much over the years, but the number of workarounds required for certain things with Digi's daw is beyond belief. And yet people knock it until they need it, and come to consider it powerful enough to keep using it.
Scope is opting for stability. Consider what would happen if the application can override Scope's settings and force a reload of all dsp's to change ULLI (asio buffer AND all calculations for Scope like delays etc have to be reloaded) or sample rate (same thing again, PLUS dsp code in general gets reset and reloaded). Now consider switching applications that are set to different settings or starting an application that tries to override Scope's settings...
For stability's sake, it's just easier to have the audio application either release the buffer in the background or close it when making changes. It's only confusing until you're used to it.
As for applications that try to query in a way that assumes certain defaults and functionality just because other applications & soundcards do it.... Well, if they code outside of the ASIO spec (which this is, even though it's a common feature) and do NOT also take care to not crash when that out of spec call fails, then it's possible that application needs to address its failure modes and code fall backs to the ASIO spec.
Lastly, the recommendation to use ASIO4all means you have something in between that will 'catch' that call. There are other programs that can do this, and some can even act as a multiclient 'wrapper' for all ASIO cards.
Personally, I would only consider running something that allowed the application to launch, then changing its settings to match scope (using that alternate driver or wrapper) and then choosing Scope as the ASIO driver and working without anything in between.
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:24 am
by Bud Weiser
garyb wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 8:56 am
there are apps that initialize the driver in ways that Scope cannot respond to. this would seem to be one of them.
perhaps it will work with ASIO4all.
Might be a bit O.T., maybe not ...
I see a few VSTis not recognizing SCOPE ASIO when the plugin is able to run in standalone mode and you try to.
Dexed
http://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/ is one of these.
It already happens in Win 7 Pro SP1 x64.
It´s simply impossible selecting SCOPE ASIO driver in the pliugin´s device-settings while Windows Audio, WASAPI and p.ex. Reaper ReaRoute ASIO driver are selectable.
I always wonder if the plugin or SCOPE is causing the issue.
Bud
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:36 am
by djmicron
Might be a bit O.T., maybe not ...
I see a few VSTis not recognizing SCOPE ASIO when the plugin is able to run in standalone mode and you try to.
Dexed
http://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/ is one of these.
It already happens in Win 7 Pro SP1 x64.
It´s simply impossible selecting SCOPE ASIO driver in the pliugin´s device-settings while Windows Audio, WASAPI and p.ex. Reaper ReaRoute ASIO driver are selectable.
I always wonder if the plugin or SCOPE is causing the issue.
Bud
On most cases it's due to the library used by those programs to provide ASIO functionality. The majority of those programs are based on Portaudio library which is known to have problems not only with Scope ASIO driver. Harrison Mixbus uses the Portaudio library and they solved in some way the issue, but it still has some glitches, for example when you start the program, it loads every ASIO driver available in your system and at the end it uses the one saved from the configuration, but you will see an error message for some of the drivers during that process.
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:24 pm
by mausmuso
Hopefully this will help
I managed to get Giada working into scope asio by feeding it thru Reaper first.
The image below shows the Reaper setup and the Giada Config that makes use of Reaper's asio IO.
Reaper has for me solved a number of incompatibilities between scope and other apps by using this trick.
maus
- Reaper_Giada Setup.png (52.41 KiB) Viewed 8223 times
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:13 am
by Bud Weiser
Yeah,- but regardless which plugin/device it is,- the Reaper ReaRoute ASIO driver adds a lot of latency.
With XITE-1 and my DAW (Win7 Pro SP1 x64), Presonus Studio One Pro 4.x, Tracktion 7, Reason 10.4 / 11.3.9 and Reaper v6.36, I´m @ 128 samples buffer size, 44.1k.
Anyway,- for recording/mixing it´s a good workaround at least.
Bud
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:41 am
by djmicron
Bud Weiser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:13 am
Yeah,- but regardless which plugin/device it is,- the Reaper ReaRoute ASIO driver adds a lot of latency.
With XITE-1 and my DAW (Win7 Pro SP1 x64), Presonus Studio One Pro 4.x, Tracktion 7, Reason 10.4 / 11.3.9 and Reaper v6.36, I´m @ 128 samples buffer size, 44.1k.
Anyway,- for recording/mixing it´s a good workaround at least.
Bud
Rearoute doesn't add a lot of latency, this screenshot is a comparison between a session of Reaper connected straight to the hardware ASIO driver and another session of Reaper connected over Rearoute driver.
As we can see, Rearoute only added 0.6 ms on the total in/out roundtrip.
- rearoute_test.png (9.95 KiB) Viewed 8191 times
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:16 am
by dawman
djmicron wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:36 am
On most cases it's due to the library used by those programs to provide ASIO functionality. The majority of those programs are based on Portaudio library which is known to have problems not only with Scope ASIO driver. Harrison Mixbus uses the Portaudio library and they solved in some way the issue, but it still has some glitches, for example when you start the program, it loads every ASIO driver available in your system and at the end it uses the one saved from the configuration, but you will see an error message for some of the drivers during that process.
Bidule had issues w/ the Portaudio library and Scope when it went to x64.
Thankfully, Seb and Dave @ Plogue used my log file to see a workaround and saved me from having to use a different host.
I fear change…
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:34 am
by Bud Weiser
djmicron wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:41 am
Rearoute doesn't add a lot of latency, this screenshot is a comparison between a session of Reaper connected straight to the hardware ASIO driver and another session of Reaper connected over Rearoute driver.
As we can see, Rearoute only added 0.6 ms on the total in/out roundtrip.
rearoute_test.png
I´m surprised now !
Never tried that "application" > "ReaRoute" > hardware "ASIO" chain.
But when I selected ReaRoute ASIO w/ a "
standalone" device/plugin like discoDSP OBX-d before it worked w/ Scope ASIO directly, it came up w/ "default" large buffer settings,- so I thought it might not be worth using.
My fault, sorry.
I´ll re-try w/ latest "Dexed", which is one of these not showing SCOPE ASIO at all in audio settings pulldown menue.
Bud
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:25 am
by asktoby
It also works if you use "ASIO Link Pro" as per these instructions:
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... io#p343973
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:50 am
by Bud Weiser
Scope v7 x64 ASIO worked for me w/ all DAWs,- Reaper latest builds, Studio One Pro 4.x, Reason 10.4.x and 11.4.x ...
I just only got some minor graphic issues w/ Studio One Pro and it might be caused by inserting XITE-1 PXCIe card into x8/x4 slot of my Asrock Z97extreme6 mobo,- sharing memory adress w/ Intel iGPU.
Most issues showed up partially when using some "standalone" virtual instruments after they received updates for Win10 and 11.
Before, the same VIs worked too.
RME Raydat PCIe x1 card and ASIO drivers work smoother w/ that board,-
that´s what I´ve found out later when I picked a Raydat.
And,- it´s all Win7 Pro x64 still.
I also never experienced any BSOD w/ Win10 Pro x64 on my laptop and using XITE-1 PCIexpresscard34.
But,- I don´t use ASIO much w/ that rig.
I tried using ASIO Link Pro by interest and found it somewhat cumbersome to handle,- so I uninstalled.
Bud
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:31 am
by djmicron
Bud Weiser wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:34 am
I´m surprised now !
Never tried that "application" > "ReaRoute" > hardware "ASIO" chain.
But when I selected ReaRoute ASIO w/ a "
standalone" device/plugin like discoDSP OBX-d before it worked w/ Scope ASIO directly, it came up w/ "default" large buffer settings,- so I thought it might not be worth using.
My fault, sorry.
I´ll re-try w/ latest "Dexed", which is one of these not showing SCOPE ASIO at all in audio settings pulldown menue.
Bud
You have to open Reaper before of opening the other apps that will be using Rearoute, otherwise you will see a wrong buffer when selecting the Rearoute driver. The reported buffer should be the same of the ASIO driver selected inside Reaper, for example, Asio Scope.
Re: Giada causes BSOD in Scope.sys
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:43 am
by Bud Weiser
djmicron wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:31 am
You have to open Reaper before of opening the other apps that will be using Rearoute, otherwise you will see a wrong buffer when selecting the Rearoute driver. The reported buffer should be the same of the ASIO driver selected inside Reaper, for example, Asio Scope.
Thank you djm !
Bud