Anybody using Scope + a firewire audioboard at once?

[Obelix]

Well, I've got a Scope Pro (since this morning), a Pulsar II SRB, a Luna and an A16 II
And in other hand, just bought an Apogee AD16 and an M-Audio lightbridgewhich communicates with the PC thru a firewire interface which will use the PCI-e port.
(got to build a racked PC as the long board can't be put in my tower)

I'd like to know if anybody did tests with something more or less like this, probably using the ASIO ins of the scope software to drive the AD16/lightbridge as I ain't got enough ADAT inputs on the Creamware system : 32 channels @ 96kHz would require 8 ADAT ins or 6 ADAT ins and 1 z-link or 4 ADAT ins and 2 z-links and adat/z-link daughterboards seem more or less impossible to find.

Other thing is about sync.
would the wordclock of the A16 and the one of the AD16 will be enough to make it run nicely?

Or would I have to use 2 computers in sync if ever I record more thant 16 tracks at once.

BTW, using TLA 5001 mic preamps, could it be nice with A16/AD16 or should I better build a modigied version of the Gyraf G9 tube preamps with PCB redrawed so you can put up to 8 preamps in a 3U euro-rack (consider spending around 1200€ in parts and a big bunch of working hours to build it).

Does anybody uses the Gyraf G9 or the Green preamp (DIY preamp using the Amek Mozart pres schematics)

Do some of you use customised mics i.e putting Neumann U or AKG C12 capsules and copy of their elctronics, into Rode or T-bone mics, same thing for Neumann KM's capsules in modified Oktava Mk...

Thanks for your input (if there are inputs )

[jhulk]

i built the gyraf9 its a nice tube dual pre amp whether you can redraw it to fit 8 in a 3u rack i think your pushing it

my mic tube pre designed and made by an ex neve designer you can fit 6 in a 3u rack it also has complement eq cards pultec made up of eqp1a and me5q

the red47/127

these pcbs are already available for purchase

the helios eq these are passive and use the second tube amp as make up gain and have 10k/10k balanced outputs and inputs which is the current standard on the older systems it was 600/600

and the early stages was 200 like the red and neve api used 1k

[garyb]

you cannot use ASIO to connect the Scope system to another soundcard's i/o, firewire or not. this just isn't how the computer environment works....

[Obelix]

Well, so I'll have to find some extension board as with a PowerPulsar, a Pulsar II and a LunaII, I won't be able to put more than 24 tracks @96kHz at once, so it'll need at least 2 ADAT ins or 1 z-link.
I know of 3 ADAT i/o plates, but are there some with z-link too?
BTW, would the sync using wordclock between the A16 and the Apogee AD16 will be enough or does it need a syncplate in the PC too? Does it needs a syncplate even with a single A16?
Are there other ways to achieve sync with external converters? MTC? SMPTe?
As having a single S/TDM nape, is it enough to use 3 PCI boards. I've seen some very odd cabling schemating using several S/TDM napes betwen 3 Scope-pro boards although I've seen pics with a single nape too.

Many thanks

[garyb]

one s/tdm cable is normally enough.

you can sync via ADAT or Z-Link(Z-Link is NOT firewire!). MTC and SMPTE are for syncing sequencers and other events. this is different than Digital Audio Sync. audio sync can be transmitted along a digital data path like S/PDIF, AES/EBU, ADAT, etc. Scope can use any or all of these types of audio sync. Word Clock via the BNC connectors would require a syncplate and possibly a master clock. BNC Word Clock is not necessarily needed.


yes, there are Z-Link plates. yes there are 24ADAT plates, there are ADAT expansion cards for the Luna, or you could replace the Luna with a 6, 14 or 15 dsp card.

[Obelix]

Well, I've just been MP'd a few minutes ago about a 3ADAT daughter board, so it looks that things are going the right way.
Nice to see that a sync plate won't be mandatory for running both my converters racks.
I think I'd keep the Luna in the system as Scope 5.1 for a 3 DSP board is much cheaper and ppl @ S-C told me it can be used as 'master' and so bigger boards can be cascaded.
24 DSPs should be enough for my use as one of mt main concerns I am not a keyboard player ar all bur I use some guitar-synthesizers systems and as Scope synths work real-time like hardware synths and that g-syths have alrready a latency, even if Axon's the lowest, it is much much more nicer to use Scope than VSTis and btw, I really don't feel to buy 6 mini-Moog Voyager to get 6 'strings' polyphonics, even 2nd hand ones, and I'm not speaking about a modular or a real Prophet V, although I got Obie Matrix 6R, Roland MKS50, Cheetah MS-6 and Roland GR700 (JX3P inside) and an small Yam FB01 which is a 1/2rack DX7 only software editable.

Many thx, you rOXXOe

[garyb]

there is no advantage to the Luna being the master board, unless the other cards you have are first generation. a Pulsar2 is second generation, so that's not an issue for your system.

[Obelix]

This is a Luna II.
The fact is there are 3 Scope 5.1 updates :
the cheapest for 3DSP, then the 6DSP, then the 14/15 DSP which is the most expensive.
So if you've got the 3DSP as 1st system board, you pay the cheapest update, even if you have 2 ScopePros as slaves... If your smallest is the 6 DSP or 4 DSP, you pay the mid price, if the 3 boards are the big boys, you'll pay balls to the wall/full throttle.
That's what I've been explained by the Sonic-Core guy.
I can't tell much more, due to the lenght of the 15 and 6 DSPs board, I simply must build a new PC which from now I only got the 19" rack PC box, I even can't tell when, it depends a little of what appears on the 2nd hand market in my country, especially as mics and mics' preamps and I've got some luthier work to be made too. In fact I'm stockpile equipment for the future full-scale studio without having enough room to operate it but as I can't put more than around 500€ a month in it, it grows slowly but as it is for a long time, everything should be here in a few months, then serious things will only begin : I'm much more concerned about building the studio as for now I never was into any serious rooms building.

[garyb]

well, these things are what they are.

[m.my91]

hello
i'am using scope with protools hd.
it work great.
you can use the maudio fire port.
i think it's the the better audio interface for integrating scope.
don't use cubase ableton logic energy xt....
use protools le.(with an ilok) not a cracked version...
after you can fix you're latency with insert hw in protools...

[JoPo]

I'm using a powercore firewire but it's only for VST plugins, no asio. But it works well with my 3 pci cards + Xite-1 , all in the same pc...-> ASUS P5Q.

[Obelix]

So you do not use it to i.e input some audio channels inside scope?
My problem has even extended since I posted :
Now there are two Audiobahns and the Apogee AD16.
It looks like I'll have to sync several computers anyway as I can't find some i/o extension plates, especially as I want to run in 96kHz

[m.my91]

So you do not use it to i.e input some audio channels inside scope?
My problem has even extended since I posted :
Now there are two Audiobahns and the Apogee AD16.
It looks like I'll have to sync several computers anyway as I can't find some i/o extension plates, especially as I want to run in 96kHz

ALL IN THE SAME TOWER PC! (quadcore required)
maudio
PROFIRE LIGHTBRIDGE
http://skipnote.org/whatever/lightbridge.pdf
this card is the best for using protools and scope together! (and also your ad16 as AD converter).
-96 khz smux full scope compatible
-midi
-wordclock in and out
-24 io adat
-32 samples buffer size
-protools le full compatible
-fireport (preserve scope pci power).
-protools insert delayed with ADC for compensate scope plugins latency on protools recording.

the Behringer Firepower FCA610
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCA1616.aspx
seams to have better performence...




http://skipnote.org/whatever/lightbridge.pdf

[Obelix]

Yeah, but how do you configurate it all at once?

In a few weeks I'm going i7 quad or more cores w. 3 PCI, Scope 5.1
1 * PowerPulsar
2* Pulsar II
in a rack enclosure
So there are 6 ADAT i/o
if the lightbridge can really run with it, this would be perfect and well, if a 2nd lightbridge could run too, this would be better as 48 channels 96kHz => 12 ADAT ins

I'm not too crazy about running Pro-Tools as I cot my habits w. Cubase since the old Atari days and well, I'd more easily go Sonar...
Need score/midi editor as a composing/arranging tool but well, maybe PT+Sibelius at once could do the trick?

I must say I'll have problems to do tests for a loooong time : following personnal reasons, building a kind of super-home-studio under the roof is a totally void project, I have to consider to pack everything, even the dishes as I'm looking to sell the house and move under other skies. The good thing in all this mess is that where I'll relocate, I'll be able to build a "real" pro studio and solar-power everything.

BTW, if anyone considers working in Luxemburg in order to have an access to the highest salaries rates on Earth, I'm located in a HIGHLY sought place for those working there (housing in Lux is overkill to buy, so better live on the french side of the border and the few villages around and mine are the best you can find : they are really gorgeous, you're not stuck in the 100km long megalopolis which is on the other side of the river, NS Luxemburg to Côte d'Azur/Swiss/Italy freeway is 2 minutes away, train station is 5 min, WE freeway Paris/Strasbourg/Germany is 5 min away, Metz (125k ppl) is 15km away, Lux border 30km, Germany border 40km, Belgium border 50km, Luxembourgville 43km, Findel international airport 50km north, regioal airport+TGV East (+300km/h train) 50km south, 2nd biggest concert hall in France : 8km, as is one of the longest indoor ski place in Europa, the biggest private zoo of the country, casino, iMax, giant cinema complex and well, if you like shopping, there were already more shopping m² than in the whole Paris region 25 years ago and it has grown, they've just opened a gigantic 30km south, maybe the biggest in France, never seen anything as huge...
So well, if anybody is considering a big house with a big garden with both the advantages of living on the rural side and living in a megalopolis with high salaries opportunities. It could even be perfect for a musician running an international career : if you take a compass on an Europe map, you're very near the center of gravity, IMHO, it's no surprise that mostly all the european institutions are located in Luxembourgville, Brussels and Strassbourg)

[garyb]

sure, you can connect the systems with lightpipe.

[m.my91]

Yeah, but how do you configurate it all at once?

In a few weeks I'm going i7 quad or more cores w. 3 PCI, Scope 5.1
1 * PowerPulsar
2* Pulsar II
in a rack enclosure
So there are 6 ADAT i/o
if the lightbridge can really run with it, this would be perfect and well, if a 2nd lightbridge could run too, this would be better as 48 channels 96kHz => 12 ADAT ins

I'm not too crazy about running Pro-Tools as I cot my habits w. Cubase since the old Atari days and well, I'd more easily go Sonar...
Need score/midi editor as a composing/arranging tool but well, maybe PT+Sibelius at once could do the trick?

I must say I'll have problems to do tests for a loooong time : following personnal reasons, building a kind of super-home-studio under the roof is a totally void project, I have to consider to pack everything, even the dishes as I'm looking to sell the house and move under other skies. The good thing in all this mess is that where I'll relocate, I'll be able to build a "real" pro studio and solar-power everything.

BTW, if anyone considers working in Luxemburg in order to have an access to the highest salaries rates on Earth, I'm located in a HIGHLY sought place for those working there (housing in Lux is overkill to buy, so better live on the french side of the border and the few villages around and mine are the best you can find : they are really gorgeous, you're not stuck in the 100km long megalopolis which is on the other side of the river, NS Luxemburg to Côte d'Azur/Swiss/Italy freeway is 2 minutes away, train station is 5 min, WE freeway Paris/Strasbourg/Germany is 5 min away, Metz (125k ppl) is 15km away, Lux border 30km, Germany border 40km, Belgium border 50km, Luxembourgville 43km, Findel international airport 50km north, regioal airport+TGV East (+300km/h train) 50km south, 2nd biggest concert hall in France : 8km, as is one of the longest indoor ski place in Europa, the biggest private zoo of the country, casino, iMax, giant cinema complex and well, if you like shopping, there were already more shopping m² than in the whole Paris region 25 years ago and it has grown, they've just opened a gigantic 30km south, maybe the biggest in France, never seen anything as huge...
So well, if anybody is considering a big house with a big garden with both the advantages of living on the rural side and living in a megalopolis with high salaries opportunities. It could even be perfect for a musician running an international career : if you take a compass on an Europe map, you're very near the center of gravity, IMHO, it's no surprise that mostly all the european institutions are located in Luxembourgville, Brussels and Strassbourg)

only one maidio lightbridge will be enought for your studio.
32 adat i/o will make 16 track at 96 khz.
- plug your ad16 apogeé direct in the lightbridge (adat out -adat in) 16 io
- put the lightbridge in slave mode and plug the bnc our of your apoggée to bnc in of lightbridge. (apoggée master clock).
- (with protools):insert the scope on protool track with adat in to out-(adc compensation)
- with cubase (xtc mode is the best for reduce latency).
- the monitoring must be made by the rca lightbrige rca line out.

[Obelix]

Err, I think you didn't understood... it has a little extended
It's 48*96kHz in and 32*96kHz channels out:
1 * Apogee AD16
2 * Creamware A16 Audiobahn 2

There are :
1 PowerPulsar + 15 dsp
2 Pulsar II 6 dsp
=> 6 ADAT i/o... 48 channels in 48kHz => 24 channels in 96kHz

and just around to put in other computers :
2 Luna II 3 dsp
2 Pulsar II SRB 6 dsp
1 Pulsar+ 4 dsp
There are even 2 EMU1820 PCI+box around, one gots the sync daughterboard.

the lightbridge was sold to me with the Apogee (and at this price, you don't even think to tell : keep the lightbridge and make it cheaper ) Well, this grew very fastly as most of stuff was sold to me as "packages" for very low prices... Well, too much things are going a little too fast for me these times

The main goal is being able to run the 27 DSPs main system with the 3*16 converters blocks at once... Well, considering the 3*2 i/o on each board whip, this'd be a 54in system

This would be perfect if I'd find two "ADAT*3" extension plates but I suppose two 2*z-link plates could be OK

Well, I think most of the time, this puter shall be in 32/16 config and one of the two A16 would be diverted in another room for a smaller "B" studio, but I could need the full extent as really huge projects could occure, especially when it comes to traditional music : it's no surprise to see a band with +30 people in tho areas...

In fact, the lightbridge, if it can be handled by Scope 5.1 i/o won't even be enough.
Need to find a i7 mobo with at least 3 PCi, a 'small' PCi-e for the firewire interface in order to input the lightbridge but... a 2nd lightbridge? Something else thru the 2nd firewire port? Something else thru a 2nd "small PCI-e"

Not too sure which drivers will be used as I've been said ASIO2 won't do, but others would put a fucking latency?
It looks more and more that I'll sync 3 PCs and 3 softwares for recording then transfer in "big daddy" for mixing...

Aaaaarggghhh, too many things to consider : dealing with officials, what recording rooms to build, mixing-desk or direct thru homebuilt Gyraf G9 preamps (or 2nd hand TLA 5001? or both?), building Neumanns from chinese cheapos, etc etc etc...
Never been into such a huge project

[m.my91]

Err, I think you didn't understood... it has a little extended
It's 48*96kHz in and 32*96kHz channels out:
1 * Apogee AD16
2 * Creamware A16 Audiobahn 2

There are :
1 PowerPulsar + 15 dsp
2 Pulsar II 6 dsp
=> 6 ADAT i/o... 48 channels in 48kHz => 24 channels in 96kHz

and just around to put in other computers :
2 Luna II 3 dsp
2 Pulsar II SRB 6 dsp
1 Pulsar+ 4 dsp
There are even 2 EMU1820 PCI+box around, one gots the sync daughterboard.

the lightbridge was sold to me with the Apogee (and at this price, you don't even think to tell : keep the lightbridge and make it cheaper ) Well, this grew very fastly as most of stuff was sold to me as "packages" for very low prices... Well, too much things are going a little too fast for me these times

The main goal is being able to run the 27 DSPs main system with the 3*16 converters blocks at once... Well, considering the 3*2 i/o on each board whip, this'd be a 54in system

This would be perfect if I'd find two "ADAT*3" extension plates but I suppose two 2*z-link plates could be OK

Well, I think most of the time, this puter shall be in 32/16 config and one of the two A16 would be diverted in another room for a smaller "B" studio, but I could need the full extent as really huge projects could occure, especially when it comes to traditional music : it's no surprise to see a band with +30 people in tho areas...

In fact, the lightbridge, if it can be handled by Scope 5.1 i/o won't even be enough.
Need to find a i7 mobo with at least 3 PCi, a 'small' PCi-e for the firewire interface in order to input the lightbridge but... a 2nd lightbridge? Something else thru the 2nd firewire port? Something else thru a 2nd "small PCI-e"

Not too sure which drivers will be used as I've been said ASIO2 won't do, but others would put a fucking latency?
It looks more and more that I'll sync 3 PCs and 3 softwares for recording then transfer in "big daddy" for mixing...

Aaaaarggghhh, too many things to consider : dealing with officials, what recording rooms to build, mixing-desk or direct thru homebuilt Gyraf G9 preamps (or 2nd hand TLA 5001? or both?), building Neumanns from chinese cheapos, etc etc etc...
Never been into such a huge project

pc 1 (xp) 32 bit ram 4 gigas.
all 3 pci with creamware (15 +6+6).(scope 3.1).
firewire (profire lightbridge (32 adat io) 32 track at 44 khz 16 track at 96 khz.(s mux mode).
apoogee ad16 (for microphone and master wordclock).

pc 2 (xp)
put the emu adat pci card and plug it to the rest of free adat in of pc 1.
emu have a lot of free plugins work at 96 khz in the emu patch mix).

you don't need other creamware dsp or creamware a16 (better use the ad16 apogee with good preamps or microphone.