M/s devices are nice but...

[JoPo]

For mastering, I use m/s devices such as Peter's red eq, Brainworx, DAS master it .. etc ... I noticed that all those m/s device loses pan placement. It's a pity ! Maybe I do something wrong but I really don't see what.
Have a try : put full on right or left a little percusion or whatever, then load a m/s device on the master channel, the placement is refocused.

Do you have some advices, tips, trick or cleverness to help me ? (I WANT this bongo full on the left and the castanets full on the right, pitain d'bordel de merde !)

Thanks !

[Music Manic]

You have to use them so they process pre-pan, or do you mean you lose the stereo image when you apply them?
The stereo image should still be there no matter how you panned your instruments.

[JoPo]

The stereo image is not how it enters in m/s device : full pan instruments are more in center. Not totaly in center but a lot.

The castanet, for example, is not completly on the left as I wish and as it is before m/s device ; in my ears and in monitoring, it's even worst : the vumeter 'see' it almost in center.

C'est casse-couille.

[Music Manic]

Something is wrong here. If your instruments in question, are panned hard left and right then they should be so when you check the stereo information (take out mono) within your M/S processor.

Do you have a pic and any audio of your setup?

[garyb]

actually, you should be able to dramatically improve the stereo imaging if the m/s eq is used properly.

[dante]

I know this goes against the theory of mastering - but try mixing with the MS active from the beginning. That way you wont have any Pan surprises by flicking it on later.

[JoPo]

Thanks for help !

-> Music Manic -> I just loaded Brainworx BX an the mixer output. I don't think there is any problem with that...?!

-> garyb -> Yes, the stereo imaging is good, I'm not saying I get a mono result, I just say the full left or right instrument go back center ; not completly but too much.

-> dante -> Ok but this doesn't tell me how I could place an instrument completly on the left/right...

Please ! Have a try ! Make the experience and tell me if I'm wrong !

parce que ça m'emmerde !

[garyb]

do you have the mono-maker on?

the mid/side design should allow you to even exaggerate the stereo field, if that's what you want to do.

[Music Manic]

Just to add that M/S is for stereo width and can also be used to extract mono information. It doesn't deal with pan placement.

Get and audio file with two instruments, each panned hard left and right. Use the mono solo on your device and they should disappear.

Maybe if you post your setup we can see what your doing.

[JoPo]

Yes, mono maker is on but for under 150hz sound. Not bongo case. I don't want to exagerate the stereo field, just to have bongo full on left & castanets full on right.

My setup is as simple as possible : mixer output -> brainworks -> speakers & asio for recording.

Did you have a try, Manic, garyb, anyone ?

Pitain que ça me les broutte !

ps : sorry for the small font, it's just for releasing some tension...

[Music Manic]

JoPo

Which version are you using of Brainworx. I've just tried the stereo version and it works fine. I don't have version to where you can switch between different types: Dual Mono , M/S and Stereo.

[JoPo]

Sorry for the time to answer !

I use Brainworx BX V2.

Again... I don't say that the sound after the device is mono or something like that. Just that when you place an instrument completly to the right or left, after an m/s device, its sound goes back a bit in the middle. It remains on the side but less than without m/s processing.

[Music Manic]

I see what you mean. I tried with an instrument and I panned hard it but still "bleeds" into the other channel instead of being hard left
or right. It is a stereo instrument so I'll test it with a mono instrument dry and with effects.

Are you using the Mastering mode in v2?

[JoPo]

Yes.. M/S mst. mode.

Well.. You reassure me ! I thought I was the only one to have this result ! If you find the way to avoid it, I'm ready to read !

[garyb]

depending on where the mono maker is set....

i usually mono sounds below 150hz. that will make some bleed to the center, but it makes a punchier mix. i also remove 150hz(sometimes higher) and below from the side component...

[JoPo]

Mono maker is at 125Hz. Yes, no stereo needed below...

[garyb]

well, then that will affect panning.

[dante]

Do you have some advices, tips, trick or cleverness to help me ? (I WANT this bongo full on the left and the castanets full on the right, pitain d'bordel de merde !) Thanks !

You could make 2 submixes. One with the M/S mastering stuff, and one without that just has the castinets and bongos hard panned, then mix the 2 submixes (maybe could do with STM bussing) ! A bit long winded (and unauthodox workaround rather than solve root cause) - but hey - its an idea !! Well, yu did ask for a trick !!

[JoPo]

Dante ! I was thinking about something like this and seriously !

[dante]

If you look at the side chain setup tab in this article

http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_11/1610_mst.htm

You can see how I wanted some mix channels to go thru the 1610 compressor and others not to. Using STM busses.

That's coz the 1610 was side chained to a dance kick and I wanted some channels to pump along with the kick, but not others, like the vocal and Zarg prowave.

You should be able to do same with the M/S processor, isolate the channels you want to be processed by it but bypass it for other channels.