'Big modules do not fit' Xite-1D when opening project

[borg]

Hi,

When opening a project I was working on earlier, Scope couldn't load this, with the message as in the title.

Some info can be found here on Z, but that is mostly contributed by people with the bigger Xite-1. The principals may be the same, but are there any specific things to keep an eye on with the 1D?

Valuable info was given by fra77x, as the tip to always press 'cancel' when asking for DSP optimization and delete the last added device. However in this case this tip does not apply. You jusy end up with empty DSPs and only the graphics of the project. I shouldn't feel lucky because I'm able to write all settings down to rebuild a project. This project wasn't anywhere near DSP limits, and not that much connections.

STM2448 X with MasterIt and PsyQ as inserts
8 adat inputs
Kick Me mono
Echo35 stereo
FxKeys stereo
2 adat out
2 analogue out

That seems very modest.
Maybe Echo and FxKeys are fighting for old sharcs and pci resources?
A smaller mixer could maybe do it... Don't know

This way, the 1D feels like a rather underpowered horse...


Some 1D specific tips will be much welcomed!
Thanks!

[fra77x]

STM2448 X with MasterIt and PsyQ as inserts//
that mixer is a hog because it uses dynamic mixers inside and all these stereo inserts cost in communication. I don't know masterit but psyq is quite dsp demanding. Try to use the effects by putting these in the project window and assign these manually to specific dsps.
Better solution use plain mixers (like the one included in my modules pack, and assign these to specific dsps according the dsps assigned to the connected devices) - (who needs pan these days) Use different projects according to each production stages.

8 adat inputs/ i don't use these. Try to assign these to dsps 0-6
Kick Me mono/ I don't use that. Assign it to specific dsp, 7-y.
Echo35 stereo/ I don;'t know that.
FxKeys stereo/ I haven't checked that. Perhaps it uses a lot of communication channels.
2 adat out/ Try to assign these to dsps 0-6
2 analogue out/Try to assign these to dsps 0-6

Ask GaryB. He always have non contradictory arguements about why things behave the way they do.

Understand Braincell isn't a complete troll.

What you pay you get...

Vst don't have good sound, but scope does not behave as well. But has good sound. You have to struggle.


EDIT: always start the xite first and then the laptop/pc. It doesn;t matter pci express is "hotplug". It justs works better when the xite is started first. If the laptop is on when you activate the xite just restart the laptop.
That solves some dsp errors on things that worked previously.

[dante]

I can run the following on XITE-1D @ 48KHz with headroom :

1) DAS ScopeRise Mixer (32 x mono) fed from ASIO and ADAT
2) Reverb (as send FX)
3) Chorus (as send FX)
4) Delay (as send FX)
5) Several instances of DAS C350L and Legend EQ (in DAS FX Rack between ASIO input and Mixer)
6) MasterIT
7) PsyQ
8 ) Brickmaster
9) MultiFX Rack houses the above 3 mastering plugs and goes on the stereo output.

I also have a 96KHz adaptation of this where a couple of dNa mastering plugs replace 5) 6) and 7) above, and a few less C350L/Legends.

[hubird]

STM 2448 plus the usual suspects should be able to load without a problem on a D1.
Not alone à principale.
I have 18DSP, full loaded with at least 4 PsyQs on the line and a lot other stuff.
How much was 18 old DSP compared to a D1 with new sharcs?
There must be something wrong.

[yayajohn]

If i had to guess i'd say it was the Echo35 that was eating up your resources. Good delay though. That's one of the reasons why i run a dual Xite/PCI setup. Use the PCI side as an external effects send/return. Have you ever tried Wolf's Tape Delay? Great sounding, but man that thing used about 20DSP's!

[garyb]

is it an old PCI project that you opened on the XITE? you might try rebulding it.

when the project is just lifeless like that, you can reload the dsps by changing the samplerate from master to slave and back again, or vice versa. when it's just the gui like that, you can try to remove or replace modules to find where the problem lies.

if it is an oild project and you still have a PCI installation, it may be trying to load from the PCI files, which will make all kinds of strange problems. if this is the case, renamce the PCI folder temporarily to be sure. then you can save the project with only XITE devices.

[borg]

thanks guys for the input!


to answer some of you:

it was a new project made the day before.
Due to windows acting funny when things get a tiny bit complicated, and me liking to work on mac much more, this is my system:
Ableton Live 9.1, Push and Touchable (iPad), and RME Fireface 800 on mac for sequencing/automation and drum tracks. This is connected to the PC through ADAT and MIDI

On the PC, I have the Xite-1D and 36 old sharcs on PCI, connected through ADAT as well.
My hopes still are for an OSX version of Scope, and my idea is to produce with the entire rig, PCI for synths and sound design, and Xite for mixing. This way I can take a laptop with Xite out to play.

This constant having to take care with DSP allocation and a, let's face it, small set of I/O options, and lack of OSX are showstoppers for me.
I love scope, it's sound, options and whatnot, but there's something lacking, something that makes me think it will never really take off (I've been a user for almost 15 years now).

Anyway, I'll try the suggestions later, and see if it gets any better, at the moment I have no time for the studio.


Also, what I find odd is this: You guys seem to advice to assign to certain DSPs. Watching the DSP-meter when loading old devices, I think that the old sharcs are in slots 5-10 and the new ones in 1-4, while most of the time I see you telling otherwise. All very confusing... And what would be the benefit, if the next time the project gets loaded, it just won't? I hear jimmy talking all the time about using modular shells to remember assignments...
Now, I understand the 'small company, limited time' blablabla, but come on: one afternoon with all programmers around the table to write down a nice and clear paper on how to get the most of Xite, please..............


Thanks again for efforts!

[fra77x]

I'm a xite-1 user so i 'm not sure if xite-1d is the same. Most probably it is.
Old dsps are the ones that can handle about 1000+ cycles in 44100 and the new ones 6000+ cycles. 500+ cycles and 3000+ in 96kHz respectively.

Messages about "no more SAT connections" are the ones that complain about connections and pc to xite resources. "No more dsp" is the message related to devices that don't fit for some reason in the "current" dsp allocation scheme. Your problem smells to me like the last tip i gave to you. Start always the xite first and then the pc so the pci-express will work correctly.

When the dsps "get off" and you got an empty dsp allocation, with no reacting system and no sound the tip Gary gave to you about switching between slave and master mode in the sample rate menu, is the correct one. If it persists something else have went wrong and a restart of the system (restart the software) is necessary.

[jksuperstar]

Also, what I find odd is this: You guys seem to advice to assign to certain DSPs. Watching the DSP-meter when loading old devices, I think that the old sharcs are in slots 5-10 and the new ones in 1-4, while most of the time I see you telling otherwise. All very confusing... And what would be the benefit, if the next time the project gets loaded, it just won't? I hear jimmy talking all the time about using modular shells to remember assignments...
Now, I understand the 'small company, limited time' blablabla, but come on: one afternoon with all programmers around the table to write down a nice and clear paper on how to get the most of Xite, please..............

It's definitely 1-6 is the old SHARCs. Even in an empty project, they show 30% usage or so, since they provide all the communication to hardware and software, and also between DSPs.

Honestly, I've NEVER seen the "old" devices loaded on the old SHARCs. I have manually placed devices there, but don't see them used by default other than for VDAT, and Hard or Soft I/O. Loading a 2448 mixer you won't see much, until you make all the connections.

[dante]

I have 18DSP, full loaded with at least 4 PsyQs on the line and a lot other stuff. How much was 18 old DSP compared to a D1 with new sharcs?

The new Sharcs run at 333 which is 5 x the old ones. So on the D we have 4 new Sharcs equivalent of 20 the old ones plus 6 = 26.

In practical use I would rate it at 30 though because having the power on one chip is more efficient than 5

I would say XITE-1d is equivalent of 2 of the old Scope pro boards or close to it if slightly under

[fra77x]

in 96kHz approximate number of cycles (for 48000 multiply x2)

15dsps scope srb = 7500

xite 1D = 15000

xite-1 = 39000

[hubird]

Bingo Dante

[dawman]

FXKeys takes an entire DSP chip when all FX are activated. If you don't have RoyTs most recent build, download that and disable anything you don't absolutley need.

Also the Echo 35 with all of the Filters and satellite connections can come at a high DSP price. Same for Wolfs' Matrix Delay. These devices worked great on the cards but not so good on the XITE-1.

Again, Delays and Filters used in a Modular shell can easily be a work around.

You could also try using a Micromixer or Dynamixer, just channels necessary, and then place the Master IT and PsyQ inside of a Modular shell in serial fashion, if I assumed correctly that you insert those in the Master FX slot of the STM 2448 X.

Just take Micro/Dyna outs into a Modular Shell then Modular > Destination modules.

If you need channel inserts the Dyna is the next best choice.

I miss many devices that worked well on the cards, but having Modular patches everywhere as a work around is far more rewarding as the old cards could never load so many mission specific patches.

To the Scope Warriors, DSPs are their weapons,.............Modular and SDK.........A way of life.