Maximum distance for ADAT/wordclock

[guppy]

Hello
I have to use a 15 meters optical adat cable for my new setup, between my focusrite adat octopre MK2 and my computer (as 8x8 xlr through 15 meters is expensive, I think a 15m adat connection between the converter and the computer is lighter to manage).
So i'm going to buy 2x15m optical adat cables.
Can you tell me if I can have problems with adat data and wordclock sync please ?
Must I use a bnc if it's bad ?
I have the syncplate, but I don't know if 15m of bnc is ok
Can you help me please ?

In the same way, is it really bad to use a classic xlr cable (2 meters) for an aes ebu speaker (JBL LSR4326P) ?
I have read that there's a 110 ohm thing to manage ?

Thanks !

[garyb]

yes, you must use a digital cable for aes/ebu. a mic cable will work, but it may also be the source of errors(crackles).

15m adat is fine. there are also amplifier/repeaters to allow super long lengths. i don't think that there'll be a wordclock issue either.

[guppy]

Ok, it's clear
Thanks Gary !

What's about the maximum lenght for bnc wordclock ?

[garyb]

that's hard to answer. it depends on what is connected, and how. if you are using a good clock generator/distributor ay 44.1 or 48k, 30 meters should be no problem, but i wouldn't want to go that far. actually, you can probably run up to 2-300meters, but you definitely add jitter, the longer the cable gets.

[guppy]

Hi there !
Ok, i've made some tests with 15m adat cable with my Focusrite octopre mk2, and i cant' have any synchronization with only ADAT and without bnc wordclock.
With a bnc wordclock, the problem is that the signal is ok from the octpre to the cards , but on the other way from the card to the octopre, I don't have any sound out (I use them for studio monitoring).
I'm waiting for 10m adat cables now

[niceboy]

Hi there !
Ok, i've made some tests with 15m adat cable with my Focusrite octopre mk2, and i cant' have any synchronization with only ADAT and without bnc wordclock.
With a bnc wordclock, the problem is that the signal is ok from the octpre to the cards , but on the other way from the card to the octopre, I don't have any sound out (I use them for studio monitoring).
I'm waiting for 10m adat cables now

About BNC Wordclock
We use paralell sync with Mutec MC 7. ( See pic under Xite )
MC 7 is amplifying the BNC signal
Thats because we have so many ADAT
We use all ADAT very close to each other,
Because BNC is not as stable as Optical,
when using for example MADI,
For Wordclock we then of practical reasons
have all ADAT very close .
BNC cables only 1,5 m
The Mutec MC 7 is amplifying the BNC Wordclok sync,
but also all BNC Wordclock cables are made paralell.
Thats making the Wordclock Sync really stable.
You must use 15 m BNC and also ADAT that long.
I dont know what to answere .
We have so many mixers , but use only one.
Thats a monitor for the earphones.
Scope mixers has retiered them all.
We are now investigating in having three small,
summing mixers from SPL only, for 3 groups on our real drums .
For Wordclock sync Design ,
please call Thomann free telephone support.
They will give you all answeres ,without having to buy first.

Bear

[garyb]

Hi there !
Ok, i've made some tests with 15m adat cable with my Focusrite octopre mk2, and i cant' have any synchronization with only ADAT and without bnc wordclock.
With a bnc wordclock, the problem is that the signal is ok from the octpre to the cards , but on the other way from the card to the octopre, I don't have any sound out (I use them for studio monitoring).
I'm waiting for 10m adat cables now

Octopres don't have optical inputs...

the analog outputs are just direct outs for the mic pres.

1600-OctoPre2_Back.jpg (137.54 KiB) Viewed 5169 times

[niceboy]

Hi there !
Ok, i've made some tests with 15m adat cable with my Focusrite octopre mk2, and i cant' have any synchronization with only ADAT and without bnc wordclock.
With a bnc wordclock, the problem is that the signal is ok from the octpre to the cards , but on the other way from the card to the octopre, I don't have any sound out (I use them for studio monitoring).
I'm waiting for 10m adat cables now

I can see you have optical outs only,
and using only optical out maybe long cables is ok.
For using SPL Summing Mixers on three groups for drums ,
welcome here:
http://www.xited.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=988
Here is our 45 dsp PCI Scope with 6 ADAT,
with the Sync Card we got from Ferrofish .
They have more cheap ADAT to MADI converter.
Not expensive at all.
For the future the RME ADI 648 maybe is better.
I dont know.
We dont yet use nr 5 and nr 6 ADAT on our 45dsp PCI,
even though we really have many analog channels in
coming also through ADAT.
Bear

[guppy]

No, I got a focusrite octopre mk2, which have 2 adat input and 2 adat output (it can convert 8 channels with s-mux for 24/96 I/O).

As it got wordclock in and out, I manage to sync it, but I dont have any signal from the output (where I take signals for ear amps and stage monitoring), and sometimes no input too (which is dedicated to a drum).
The problem is maybe that I don't have a good wordclock (the scope card give the clock)

[niceboy]

No, I got a focusrite octopre mk2, which have 2 adat input and 2 adat output (it can convert 8 channels with s-mux for 24/96 I/O).

That looks great but I still cant comment more about the the 15 m ADAT and BNC,
if you are using only one ADAT.
I think BNC can be used up to 100 m used as digital MADI,
but Optical MADI can be more than 3000 m or unlimited I think.
Ask Thomann about your 15 meter BNC Wordclock without Sync Amplifier.
Merry Christmas.

[guppy]

hmmm....So I need a good wordclock ....
I will try before a 10m adat, since I can move the focusrite a little (because I use a 15m adat but the lenght is about 11.5m).

[niceboy]

hmmm....So I need a good wordclock ....
I will try before a 10m adat, since I can move the focusrite a little (because I use a 15m adat but the lenght is about 11.5m).

I dont think the length or the Amp is an issue here .
Amp and Wordclock is not the same thing
Wordclock is your BNC cabel and your Choice.
Press Internal or Similar in destination mostly
The one thats made Master with your Choice ,
and the BNC cabel , makes the Wordclock function.
As I said before using one way sync,
for example a Venue Board.
The singel BNC Cabel could probarbly be 100 m
About the Wordclock Amp.
Please call Thomann free telephone support.
Bear

[garyb]

i don't think that the cables are the issue...

[niceboy]

i don't think that the cables are the issue...

Hi
He is asking in the other thread also about the same thing.
I dont know if I am right.
I am just speculating because its not clear how much he knows at all.
Merry Christmas.

[guppy]

Gary, what do you mean by the cable shouldn't be the problem ?
Should it be ok with adat worclock with a 15m lenght, or the solution is a master worclock ?

[niceboy]

Gary, what do you mean by the cable shouldn't be the problem ?
Should it be ok with adat worclock with a 15m lenght, or the solution is a master worclock ?

I think its good idea to just talk for free with Thomann Tel support about that.
When you ask them .
Ask for ADAT sync.
There is nothing called ADAT Wordclock
Wordclock is when you use the BNC cable as sync.
I think both is working but its just a little bit unusual for me.
Bear

[guppy]

I thought wordclock was transfered also with adat as the octopre can sync with adat only from the cards.
Before the move, My setup was : cards master, octopre slave sync with adat, and a16 ultra slave sync with firewire. I think in all the cases wordclock was transfered to the slave hardware. It was ok, but with a smal lenght (the octopre and a16 were really near the computer, but now the a16 is t 5m and the octopre between 10and 15m.

[the19thbear]

If you are looking for another solution check out the adat to cat5 extender called Pro audio adx 8.
It converts Adat to cat 5 and back again and you will be able to have TONS of length on cables.

[niceboy]

I thought wordclock was transfered also with adat as the octopre can sync with adat only from the cards.
Before the move, My setup was : cards master, octopre slave sync with adat, and a16 ultra slave sync with firewire. I think in all the cases wordclock was transfered to the slave hardware. It was ok, but with a smal lenght (the octopre and a16 were really near the computer, but now the a16 is t 5m and the octopre between 10and 15m.

Yes
If you put it like this .
Sync can be made through ADAT only ,mostly.
Its easy dont worry.
To sync with only ADAT ,just find whats named as Internal on software or hardware.
That unit you choose will be master.
Then signals goes both ways.
Bear

[garyb]

yes, i mean that the cable length shouldn't be the reason that sync doesn't work at 15 meters. while it's possible that length is an issue, i'd think it's something else. if a shorter cable works, then maybe there's a problem with the cable itself.

a master clock and bnc sure simplifies things, though.