best converters?
Anybody know if the converters in the A16 are different/better than those on-board, behind the various scope boards' analogue I/Os?
I know the A16 has other advantages, notably lots of channels, and presumably the Z-link is a good way into and out of the pulsar environment. But I'm mainly interested in the best quality conversion I can get (i.e. lowest sampling error, best use of available dynamic range, and best clipping error management, etc), one channel (or one stereo channel) at a time. Do I already have this?
Any opinions on how the conversion on my PII cards compares to the A16 - or to other analogue I/O options compatible with CW cards?
tks
I know the A16 has other advantages, notably lots of channels, and presumably the Z-link is a good way into and out of the pulsar environment. But I'm mainly interested in the best quality conversion I can get (i.e. lowest sampling error, best use of available dynamic range, and best clipping error management, etc), one channel (or one stereo channel) at a time. Do I already have this?
Any opinions on how the conversion on my PII cards compares to the A16 - or to other analogue I/O options compatible with CW cards?
tks
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Actually, Apogee don't sound THAT nice, it's more the name and the PRO specs you pay for (meters, flexible connections, pro tools "friendly", nice limiters, topsound samplerate conversion, and of curse extreme low jitter), but the sound from the actual converters isn't that much far from converters from fx Motu, RME Fostex & creamware. Fostex being the lowest price/quality solution.
In fact alot of pro peoble like the RME solutions very much, sound-vise.
I look forward to hear the new creamware converter, curse i owned the "old" a16 for years now, and the sound quality is nice, clean and even better sounding than most 24 bit convertors on the market (alesis ai-8 fx)
But i have to point out, that if you haven't got it allready, you should get the Syncplate, from creamware, else you aint getting 50% of the real sound of ANY convertor.
And too, alot depends on what outboard gear you have (preamps, limiters, compressors etc), curse theres no reaon to pay twice if you already have the gear for it...
<B>Hi there...</B>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thalamus on 2001-10-18 16:20 ]</font>
In fact alot of pro peoble like the RME solutions very much, sound-vise.
I look forward to hear the new creamware converter, curse i owned the "old" a16 for years now, and the sound quality is nice, clean and even better sounding than most 24 bit convertors on the market (alesis ai-8 fx)
But i have to point out, that if you haven't got it allready, you should get the Syncplate, from creamware, else you aint getting 50% of the real sound of ANY convertor.
And too, alot depends on what outboard gear you have (preamps, limiters, compressors etc), curse theres no reaon to pay twice if you already have the gear for it...
<B>Hi there...</B>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thalamus on 2001-10-18 16:20 ]</font>
They´re all different, the convertors of the A8/A16 are limited to 48 kHz and are 18bit but symetric, those on your Pulsar2 are 24/96 non-symetric. I use two A16s, and the convertors are still better than all of my VA-synths outputs, except for my Alesis DM-Pro and my Sony DPS-V55 which are a bit too powerful on their outputs...
But who cares, the A16s are really nice-sounding and for the money you´ll get nothing comparable.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JoeKa on 2001-10-18 16:23 ]</font>
But who cares, the A16s are really nice-sounding and for the money you´ll get nothing comparable.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JoeKa on 2001-10-18 16:23 ]</font>
thanks for all the feedback
Sounds like the a lot of people think well of the A16. But I still am wondering, does anyone know for a fact whether the A16 (old or new) uses different/better converters than the ones on my pulsar II boards, or is it the same.
(I assume the PII has a pair of cnvrtrs on-board for the stereo analogue I/Os, right?, whereas A16 has 16 (pairs?)
Also, what's "symetric" mean in converter land? (used in one response to this thread)
Finally, Thalamus said that w/o syncplate the converter performance is somehow lost? Maybe I'm missing something. Can anyone clarify?
All I'm looking for at the moment is a single (Stereo) A-D conversion that goes into pulsar easily, and which is as high-quality sonically (does this equal "accurate"?) as possible. Do I have that already on-board?
(and sadly, quality/price consideration needs to be factored in)
Sounds like the a lot of people think well of the A16. But I still am wondering, does anyone know for a fact whether the A16 (old or new) uses different/better converters than the ones on my pulsar II boards, or is it the same.
(I assume the PII has a pair of cnvrtrs on-board for the stereo analogue I/Os, right?, whereas A16 has 16 (pairs?)
Also, what's "symetric" mean in converter land? (used in one response to this thread)
Finally, Thalamus said that w/o syncplate the converter performance is somehow lost? Maybe I'm missing something. Can anyone clarify?
All I'm looking for at the moment is a single (Stereo) A-D conversion that goes into pulsar easily, and which is as high-quality sonically (does this equal "accurate"?) as possible. Do I have that already on-board?
(and sadly, quality/price consideration needs to be factored in)
Well, if you´re looking for just a single stereo I/O you can rely on your Pulsar´s on-board convertors, I guess.
And you don´t know the difference between symetric and non-symetric connections? Uh, that takes some explanation then:
Non-symetric is the usual way of audio connection among the "normal" soundgear, where you have for a mono signal just the signal (core) and the base (shield). All forms of usual plugs (cinch or mono jacks) can naturally only transmit audio via the signalwire.
But:
Symetric cables use two wires for the signal plus the shield. The signal in these both wires are phase-inverted one to another, so if an external radiation sends noise into the whole cable, it will be the same amplitude for both phases. The (symetric) receiving part of the signal again will invert one phase and mix the both together, so the noise will be phase-inverted in one of them now and therefor extinguish itself.
That´s it, no cable noise anymore. So it´s sensible to have symetric wiring wherever possible, especially in more complex setups with many audio-, energy- and datacables close to each other. Generally used plugs for symetric wiring are stereo jacks or XLR (for mono-signals each)
Got it? Anyone who´d explain it different?
And you don´t know the difference between symetric and non-symetric connections? Uh, that takes some explanation then:
Non-symetric is the usual way of audio connection among the "normal" soundgear, where you have for a mono signal just the signal (core) and the base (shield). All forms of usual plugs (cinch or mono jacks) can naturally only transmit audio via the signalwire.
But:
Symetric cables use two wires for the signal plus the shield. The signal in these both wires are phase-inverted one to another, so if an external radiation sends noise into the whole cable, it will be the same amplitude for both phases. The (symetric) receiving part of the signal again will invert one phase and mix the both together, so the noise will be phase-inverted in one of them now and therefor extinguish itself.
That´s it, no cable noise anymore. So it´s sensible to have symetric wiring wherever possible, especially in more complex setups with many audio-, energy- and datacables close to each other. Generally used plugs for symetric wiring are stereo jacks or XLR (for mono-signals each)
Got it? Anyone who´d explain it different?
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If you use the A16 with Z-link instead of ADAT, you won't need any wordclock. And also none of the synching issues. Z-link is so perfect, with 2 zlink, you'll get the FULL 24/96 on 16 channels. In ADAT world the max, using both ADAT is 8 channels @ 24/96 or 16 channels at 24/48 (using S/MUX).
If you use the adat options, wordclock is neat, cuz it's a lot more precise than having pulsar sync all of this. The wordclock as low jiter correction and can be used to sync other hardware.
If you use the adat options, wordclock is neat, cuz it's a lot more precise than having pulsar sync all of this. The wordclock as low jiter correction and can be used to sync other hardware.
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Marcus Pocus
Marcus Pocus
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I was wondering, the new A16 is a standalone box right? I have the impression that many of these converter boxes are a set of a PCI card and the box itself, being controled by some software. In my case, there is no way I can free up a PCI slot so I've given up on getting these... But if A16 can go without using a PCI slot, then this could solve the problem... finally I can input DIRECTLY into PulsarII Plus..
On the other hand, my PCI slots being full, automatically eliminates the option of using the Z-link.. I'd have to settle with the ADAT which is OK since I don't need 96hz.
Things would be so much easier if Creamware put Z-link on all their cards.. What good is a proprietory interface if they're not going to standardize it??
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2001-10-19 13:37 ]</font>
On the other hand, my PCI slots being full, automatically eliminates the option of using the Z-link.. I'd have to settle with the ADAT which is OK since I don't need 96hz.
Things would be so much easier if Creamware put Z-link on all their cards.. What good is a proprietory interface if they're not going to standardize it??
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2001-10-19 13:37 ]</font>
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