Another Mass Murder Today In Orlando

[braincell]

Time to ban hand guns. Abolish the Second Amendment! Too many insane people. I don't care how long it takes to get rid of existing guns so don't give me that BS argument. I also have no interest in overthrowing the government with guns. Guns are bad. Most countries don't allow them. Why are we so primitive in so many ways compared to most other countries in the world? Join the modern world USA. It's not the wild west. I hate guns!

[pollux]

Time to ban hand guns. Abolish the Second Amendment! Too many insane people. I don't care how long it takes to get rid of existing guns so don't give me that BS argument. I also have no interest in overthrowing the government with guns. Guns are bad. Most countries don't allow them. Why are we so primitive in so many ways compared to most other countries in the world? Join the modern world USA. It's not the wild west. I hate guns!

Are you serious? If you ban guns, then the King of England is going to take over the USA, and you'll be doomed to drinking team with milk and eating boiled meat with mint sauce for the rest of your life

[Neutron]

LOL it seems the French are just as ignorant about England as the Americans!
they use HP sauce on their boiled meat!

[pollux]

LOL it seems the French are just as ignorant about England as the Americans!
they use HP sauce on their boiled meat!

You mean that all these years laughing with Asterix in Brittain... wait.. I'm shocked.. You just ruined my life.. Next thing is that Santa Claus doesn't exist and then everything'll be over...

[garyb]

you might as well ban anti depressants like Paxil and Prozac. there are plenty of studies linking long term use with extreme psychosis. EVERY mass shooter/murderer in the last 10 years or so has been a patient and i'll lay money that this one was too. the Ft Hood shooter was....

[Neutron]

you might as well ban anti depressants like Paxil and Prozac. there are plenty of studies linking long term use with extreme psychosis. EVERY mass shooter/murderer in the last 10 years or so has been a patient and i'll lay money that this one was too. the Ft Hood shooter was....

A few people shot, its the price of doing business. its pretty cheap compared to the automobile death toll. Wont anyone think of the poor shareholders?

[dawman]

It's real easy being a backseat driver and make fun of the dumb Americans and their guns, but I have seen social collapse a few times, and I am not foolish enough to believe the Police will protect me and my family.
Everyone knows when the shit hits the fan, you whack the people you always hated and rob the richest fat cats in the neighborhood......why....because the cops won't come. They are busy gaurding local businesses and City Hall. Those are the rules of the Hood. There's even songs describing this. Perhaps gun haters should go hang in the hood during the next collapse and then try to lie to me about peace and good will to man........
If I die from a lack of protection, they will come by and scape my body up and fill out some reports , but that's SOP. During Katrina the cops ran, even in NYC on 911 many Policemen were concerned that their family was in danger and didn't show up either, but most were brave and paid the price.
Most Americans have a natural instinct to survive, so that means if there are guns around common sense dictates self preservation.
Personally Assault weapons are for the paranoid, I don't have a problem banning those, but there's always another Rosie O'Donnel trying to ban all guns, but her bodygaurds have special priveledges. Fuck that nonsense and that Fat dyke.
My Dogs Hunt and so do my guns. When the next collapse comes there could be lines for food. There will be millions of hungry people waiting for Uncle Sam to feed and tell them everything will be fine.
Take a good look at the CDC and how they they demand that everyone get the shot, and then the sorry sons of bitches can't even muster up more than 27 million doses, 77 million short, and you expect them to tell you the truth and feed you...? Snap out of it.
I hunt every year because I love fish and Elk Loins. The license is cheap and we always score. A 6 pointer will feed me and my neighbors for the winter. I love trout too and have a 5th wheel near the German Brown spawning grounds. I won't be standing in line like a helpless believer. I believe in God more than I do our Government and I ain't prayed in years, but I have decades of reasons to distrust Uncle Sam. Starting with the assasination of JFK. I was only 5 but often wondered why a lone gunmen would do such a thing. Then I grew up and realized our Government is the Mafia.
Thankfully I was raised by real men that taught me what the real world is all about.
Uncle Sam can muster up large groups of soldiers and planes and kill thousands around the globe, they have lots of experience at that, but they couldn't find a hooker in a whore house. Besides, I have my own 10 Commandments I must follow.
The pharmacuetical Companies that hang out at the White House are respnosible for many of these crazed killings. I feel for the families of the dead,it has no justifiaction.
And yes it's a sad couple of days in the USA.

[siriusbliss]

most gun owners aren't happy about the guns, they're happy to be the first line of defense.
The stereotypical (brainwashed) response to this is situation is to blame some sort of cultural establishment, which is only true for those too ignorant to know the distinction.

Gun free zones are the highest crime zones. Correlate the stats for Chicago, D.C, and Miami.
If the female ARMED cope hadn't been nearby, this guy could've continued on to the next building and continue his shooting spree.
Cops don't live next door to me, and if they did, they couldn't hear my cries for help when and if the crap ever hits the fan.

Noone has asked if this guy was on psychotropic drugs such as anti-depressants - which the AMA lobby won't admit has links to serious crime.

Blaming 'gun-happy America' just shows ignorance of real underlying issues.

Greg

[astroman]

if I remember that quote correctly, in the US you have (at least ?) some 75k fatalities per year in hospitals due to side effects of regularily prescribed drugs during regular treatments... so what ?

cheers, Tom
ps: it's truely sad for the victims and their relatives, but that doesn't mean to loose perspective

[kensuguro]

If I die from a lack of protection, they will come by and scape my body up and fill out some reports , but that's SOP. During Katrina the cops ran, even in NYC on 911 many Policemen were concerned that their family was in danger and didn't show up either, but most were brave and paid the price.
Most Americans have a natural instinct to survive, so that means if there are guns around common sense dictates self preservation.

Well, Jimmy, don't take this personally, but while I do agree with you that in some areas in the US, esp during tough times could become quite anarchistic, it's also quite true that in many places outside of the US... that sort of chaos is very rare. Just sayin', it's easy to conclude from experiences within the US, that one must protect himself during times of chaos... but basically what I'm saying is that the bar should be set at "not having to be in that situation in the first place".

Mere survival shouldn't be such a hot topic. In NY, I must be aware of where I am, and my surroundings so that I don't cease to exist. I must be especially aware, when I am out late with my wife. It is quite simple to end your life in the US, and that is quite strange for a developed country. Most times, NY feels like a jungle because of the hidden hostility, overall chaos, and lack of medical care. (if you freelance and don't have insurance) Having to observe the nature of unpredictable people around you, is much like how I handle myself in nature, like in the Miami everglades around gators, or in the ocean around barracudas, etc.

So it seems like this the way it has to be, but I don't think so. I mean, the world proves so.

On a political note, I'm reading about public policy right now, and it clearly says in the textbook, that because of the way power and resources are distributed, there is a disproportionate focus on particular group's agendas. (the rich and powerful, of course) This is true for any political system. The nature of politics is elitist to varying degrees. So it's not surprising that the interests of the priviledged is served better than the disadvantaged. This is not to say that the disadvantaged will never be heard. It's through focusing events like Columbine, or any of the over abundent shootings that can cause enough public awareness, to bring gun related agendas into public consideration, and if events are extreme enough, moves them to public policy. The nature of politics, and the fact that the US government is an extremely stable one, makes sudden changes difficult, but policy writers are well aware of the elitist problem, and they also know that a certain amount of disadvantaged issues need to be considered so they can stay in business (to hold seat), so systems are in place for a small amount of these issues to pass through. That system being interest groups, sort of open media (though it's pretty much controlled), freedom of speech, and any other civil activity that any citizen owns as a right. The problem is, many people do not take advantage of these rights, and assume that the government is corrupt and that nothing will get fixed. Which is precisely why things don't get fixed.

[kensuguro]

yeah, my standpoint on the current status, is that yes, it's true that in specific parts of the US, survival is a very real problem, and it's true that guns may be necessary for self protection. Even if it means just for the peace of mind. But, it's also true that if the situation did not persist, meaning if baseline security and safety was guaranteed as in many developed countries, the need for self protection wouldn't arise because your safety wouldn't be at risk.

As with many living organisms, a hostile environment leads to a more developed set of weapons, and most importantly, powerful offensive behavior. If the environment becomes safe, or if the subject precieves his environment as safe, the offensive mentality and behavior should slowly fade.

This sort of safe environment is supposedly a public good because it is contains a free rider problem. Such public goods are to be delivered (funded / regulated, etc) by the governing body, much like roads and power.. Police force is supposedly the resulting implementation, which judging by the results, is either not getting the job done, or there are policies in place that guarantee a certain amount of social unrest. I mean, rule of thumb is that people are much more obedient to direction in times of chaos. So why not keep a bit of chaos around, right?

Another point of view is that even within the US, not every place is hostile, and times aren't hostile all the time. But if the people who vocalize their opinions more, percieve lots of hostility, it's quite easy for that perception to ripple through to places that are actually safe. And considering that many people only vocalize their opinions when things are at stake (who cares if you're safe to begin with), it's quite possible that several local hostility has been generalized to a nation wide status.

[dawman]

I can also agree with you there as well.
But I will still go on my yearly hunting excursions because the population is controlled by a precise amount of hunting and there are limits.
There are no Wolves in the Sierras near Tahoe and Reno and North to the Calfornia border. Hence no predators except for man.
At and near Yellowstone there is no hunting as the Wolves take care of business.
I will always hunt because the thought of not being able to feed myself is most unnerving.
I could actually live off of cactus, rattlesnake and rabbitt here in Vegas. But I have a spot in Tahoe where the food is more abundant, and one of the worlds largest drinkable fresh water sources. Brazil is first, then Lake Baikal in Siberia. At Baikal they even have fresh water Seals, the only place on Earth. I hear they taste good.............

[garyb]

as i said before, knives, arrows and swords are more than fatal enough. if you can eliminate ALL the guns, including those guns used by the "good guys", i'm ALL for it. I make the decision whether or not to arm myself as a protection against those who wish to harm or not if weapons are around. after all, good guys often turn out to be bad.

ken, mayhem is EVERYWHERE. it's not reported or thought of in the same way everywhere, but it's everywhere.

[kensuguro]

well mayhem is everywhere in that it "exists". Statistically, though, the rate varies quite a bit. Even within the US. Even more so at a global scale. And that's not to say that developing countries with a dysfunctional government have it right... I mean, even just within the developed countries crime rate varies quite a bit. US follows right after countries in Africa in terms of muder per capita, though Colombia and South Africa leads all other countries by quite a bit.

On the other hand, the other side is true as well. There are plenty of places where survival is not an issue, and where self protection from hostile people are almost a thing of the past. There are plenty of bad results to look at, but also plenty of good results to check out too. Main problem being the tendency to only look outwards to justify a local wrong, rather than the other way around.

[garyb]

that's correct, ken. however, having guns or not having guns is not the reason people are nice to each other. banning weapons is not what makes a safe society.

still, i am in favor of eliminating weapons if all of those weapons, including the official ones, disappear. that would be true security. i'm guessing that will only happen after everyone figures out why to be kind to each other....i'm not in favor of banning the weapons of those who are in the weakest position, the common people.

[kensuguro]

that's correct, ken. however, having guns or not having guns is not the reason people are nice to each other. banning weapons is not what makes a safe society.

haha. you're very right. Basically, it shouldn't matter if people own guns or not, if society was peaceful. The problem is elsewhere, and not in the physical ownership of guns.

[braincell]

In a society with a lot of insane people, guns make it too easy to kill someone or yourself. A lot of murders are by weak cowardly people. They wouldn't even think of using a knife, that is too difficult and messy. Guns are glamorized in movies and on television. It just doesn't make sense to have guns legal. They serve no other purpose other than to kill or intimidate. That is wrong. Like I said, other countries have them illegal and we should follow their superior and more mature ways. I don't want citizens be they good or bad making the decision to kill people. They aren't going to kill as many with knives or push them out windows. Maybe a few but not nearly as many. Be serious folks. Guns are bad! The people and the lawmakers are not playing with a full deck. We have to be more like Europe and Japan in many ways. Stop the inbreds from flushing our nation down the toilet. Don't listen to the NRA and the pharmaceutical lobby groups. The only hope is if we keep getting flooded with immigrants, we will be able to outvote the white men and have an iota of common decency!

[garyb]

that's correct, ken. however, having guns or not having guns is not the reason people are nice to each other. banning weapons is not what makes a safe society.

haha. you're very right. Basically, it shouldn't matter if people own guns or not, if society was peaceful. The problem is elsewhere, and not in the physical ownership of guns.

thank you for being real.

[garyb]

In a society with a lot of insane people, guns make it too easy to kill someone or yourself. A lot of murders are by weak cowardly people. They wouldn't even think of using a knife, that is too difficult and messy. Guns are glamorized in movies and on television. It just doesn't make sense to have guns legal. They serve no other purpose other than to kill or intimidate. That is wrong. Like I said, other countries have them illegal and we should follow their superior and more mature ways. I don't want citizens be they good or bad making the decision to kill people. They aren't going to kill as many with knives or push them out windows. Maybe a few but not nearly as many. Be serious folks. Guns are bad! The people and the lawmakers are not playing with a full deck. We have to be more like Europe and Japan in many ways. Stop the inbreds from flushing our nation down the toilet. Don't listen to the NRA and the pharmaceutical lobby groups. The only hope is if we keep getting flooded with immigrants, we will be able to outvote the white men and have an iota of common decency!

wow, you must work for the UN!

look, fear won't help to fix anything.

also, what's with the self-loathing? you consider yourself a "white man", no? if so, by your definition you have no common decency.

[braincell]

You should know because fear is the main currency of right wing conspiracy theorists.