Multiclient MIDI drivers still no go ?

[maky325]

Can anybody elaborate why the hell (we are in 2009, going to 2010) MIDI driver in Scope is (still) not multiclient? I was expecting to see this within v5 update. But now my friend confirmed that even in XITE - MIDI driver is not multiclient.
Please don't ask what is multiclient MIDI driver (google is your friend) but provide useful information what we can do about it...

[Janni]

Hmm... you can create many midi driver ports... you can filter and route them to each other... that's pretty much 'multiclient'
Maybe that's the reason there's no 'real' multiclient. I don't know...

Btw, thanks for that cool scope pro deal! Was really nice to deal with you!

[garyb]

yeah, you can already connect any midi signal to as many programs as you wish by just putting more midi modules in the routing window. remember, any output can feed as many inputs as you like, even if the inputs can only be fed from one output.

[maky325]

Hmmm...guys you are completely missing my point (i told you not to post if you don't know what i am talking about) or i simply don't know for this possibility and i am dumba**. Here is example:

Xite (or scope pro) midi out is connected to midi in on Jomox Airbase 99. Open up your sequencer and send some midi data via that hardware port. Working ok. That's fine. Now try to open some librarian or external midi editor for your outboards gear! Like Sounddiver or Midiquest. Then try to use it on that same port. Now what? Since MIDI driver is not multiclient application XY can not (it is unavailable to second application until i close first application) make any use of that port.

Simply put every other MIDI out i have in my rig(Edirol, Motu) is multiclient. That said i can open my host application, send any kind of midi data to device XY and at the same time i can use some application to edit outboard instrument library/patch and everything is working flawless. With hardware Scope midi port i can use only one application at the time.

[Janni]

ok, akaik you can't use your scope/Xite HWMidiOutput directly. You have to create a Midi seq dest/source and connect them with your HWMidiOut/In
in the routing window... If you want to use a second program, create a second pair of Midi Dest/Source and connect them via mergers in the routing window... Got it?

[Janni]

midirouting.JPG (27.84 KiB) Viewed 4003 times

mididriver.JPG (81.53 KiB) Viewed 4001 times

[netguyjoel]

That just solved a huge problem I was having, using 3 USB controllers (MPK-49, BCR & BCF) \Now The XITE would not see the MPK-49 via usb, had to buy an AC adaptor, hook up a midi cable and, there she was!
So, if I'm reading this correctly, I might not have to upgrade to a 8x8 Midi interface..
I'd like to just use the USBs for midi input and leave the midi output for external synths & hardware? This looks very promissing...THANX!

[maky325]

ok, akaik you can't use your scope/Xite HWMidiOutput directly. You have to create a Midi seq dest/source and connect them with your HWMidiOut/In
in the routing window... If you want to use a second program, create a second pair of Midi Dest/Source and connect them via mergers in the routing window... Got it?

Janni thanks for your input but i know for all this what you are saying. I am using it this way(similar) for years. I think you don't quite understand what i am talking about. Do you have some hardware like synth or sampler so you could test this for yourself? I'll try again(i know, my english is terrible). You simply cannot access (you can see it but..) to MIDI out port with two applications at the same time. All resources will go the the first one loaded(your host for example). This is not multiclient behavior. While for example i can do it without any problem on EDIROL UM-550 or Um-880 or Motu MIDI patchbay. I can access to the very same port with few applications at the same time.

Google for "MIDI Multiclient" option.

[Janni]

Sorry... I think my sequencer (ableton live) leaves unused midiports untouched so other applications
can use them (like I tried to show in my picture). May I ask what kind of seq you are using?
Maybe you can disable (in the seq) the midiports you want to use with your editor?
Maybe it helps to open first the editor (then midiport is blocked by editor) and then open seq?
Again, sorry...

[maky325]

Sorry... I think my sequencer (ableton live) leaves unused midiports untouched so other applications
can use them (like I tried to show in my picture). May I ask what kind of seq you are using?
Maybe you can disable (in the seq) the midiports you want to use with your editor?
Maybe it helps to open first the editor (then midiport is blocked by editor) and then open seq?
Again, sorry...

No need to apologize. I know you are trying to help.
Every seq, will leave unused port alone if you define it but i am actually using my port to control hardware.
As i said i am using my gear for years now and i am quite common with my stuff. Believe me i did every possible scenario few years ago. Somehow i was expecting to see it in v5 driver. I am leaving room to learn something that i still don't know about Scope but i think that this is isolated issue (indeed).
What seq. i am using is not important because it is really same thing in every sequencer (i know since i tested) but FYI i am using latest Cubase and latest FL Studio 9 (switching between them depending on project).

I can disable Midi Out port in seq but that is not logical since i am using it to send notes or CC messages. Once when it is disabled inside SEQ it is available for editor but that's not music/sound making then and i don't see a point there at least not in my setup.

If i open editor first then SEQ notify me that port is used by other application and can not be used inside seq. All this is happening because MIDI driver is not multiclient. And just because of this. I was expecting to see it in v5 since this is really common thing by now. Even my poor old Terrtatec sound card (not used anymore) had multiclient midi driver. This is really common thing for musician. I must say i am disappointed a little. How did they overlook this? I'll try to contact SC about this issue...

[garyb]

use a small usb interface for the editor.

why not make your request directly to S/C? they may not respond directly, but they will certainly note your preference. if they get more than a few requests and it's reasonably technically possible, they'd more than likely implement such a protocol, time permitting.

[Fluxpod]

You could use Midiyoke.That works pretty well here.
Its free.

[dawman]

Is MIDI Yoke a loopback app?

[Fluxpod]

Is MIDI Yoke a loopback app?

Yes.It has 9 ports to route any input to any output.Some guy here had the same multiclient disaster and since he is using midiyoke he is satisfied.I use it for routing clock and midi inbetween cubase/ableton and several max patches.

[maky325]

use a small usb interface for the editor.

why not make your request directly to S/C? they may not respond directly, but they will certainly note your preference. if they get more than a few requests and it's reasonably technically possible, they'd more than likely implement such a protocol, time permitting.

But i just said that i'll make mail for SC. Gary my hardware does not have 2x midi in, one for accepting midi data and one exclusively for sysex editing. In fact i never saw anything like that.

Look guys i know you are trying to help but that is why i said (in the first place) if you don't know what is multiclient driver don't post here. I don't want to look like douche idiot but most of your advices are worthless and unlogical. And i don't want to install additional software either. I've heard for midi yoke but i am really not interested in learning, tweaking or "making" something to work like every other (even low grade) software.

I'll ask SC about this and i will report here if they give me some response on this.

[garyb]

there's a solution!

[maky325]

there's a solution!

So can you explain and give me a real world example please? They should hire you there in SC. IMHO you have so much positive vibe about this platform that you simply can't see their mistakes in a bad way. They will benefit just by holding you there. Cool man.

On the other way if something is adverted as complete virtual studio i am expecting to see at least from this "virtual" to be true. Multiclient drivers are usual thing and they have been usual for past few years (five or more). Really you can check for yourself. Even so much ditched Steinberg has them in Midex which is discontinued now. Even low grade sound cards have them. Ahh...

[Fluxpod]

You asked, i answered.Midi yoke will work for this..its free,it doesnt take more then 5 mins to understand and it will work perfekt.You can now go on and post how our solutions are worthless and we dont get what you are saying or you grab your balls squeeze em and get to work using the solutions posted.Or you maybe arent understanding the solutions.Seriously when you post for help keep your ego calm or you do look like an ass.
Oh and btw...midiquest is the problem here..or sounddiver.They do take the midi ports alone in standalone.You can load midiquest as a vst plugin to fix that.

[garyb]

my bad, i just thought you wanted it to work.

i don't know if such a driver is possible on this system or not. actually, i've have midi work both in samplitude and cubase at the same time, so i'm not sure exacly what makes the trouble. it seems like your editor should be able to choose which midi driver to use, so if the sequencer was holding on to one, the editor should be able to hold onto the other.

as to the rest of your bitch(at me, like i'm opposing you! ), i think Scope is pretty damn complete, but that's me. do i think it's unimprovable? certainly not. i do know however, that Creamware did most of the work and now Sonic/Core is handling things. if NO ONE has ever told the guys at S/C that multiclient midi drivers were a MUST(most cards can't have unlimited numbers of midi ports. being able to have many virtual ports would handle things, normally), because the apps used won't choose a different other than the default windows driver(a problem with the app as much as the hardware), then they'll focus their attention elsewhere. man hours are LIMITED. writing here is not the same as telling S/C, and there's no need for any anger.

[siriusbliss]

use a small usb interface for the editor.

why not make your request directly to S/C? they may not respond directly, but they will certainly note your preference. if they get more than a few requests and it's reasonably technically possible, they'd more than likely implement such a protocol, time permitting.

But i just said that i'll make mail for SC. Gary my hardware does not have 2x midi in, one for accepting midi data and one exclusively for sysex editing. In fact i never saw anything like that.

Look guys i know you are trying to help but that is why i said (in the first place) if you don't know what is multiclient driver don't post here. I don't want to look like douche idiot but most of your advices are worthless and unlogical. And i don't want to install additional software either. I've heard for midi yoke but i am really not interested in learning, tweaking or "making" something to work like every other (even low grade) software.

I'll ask SC about this and i will report here if they give me some response on this.

Unwillingness to test the multi-port and routing capabilities in Scope, while demeaning us for 'not knowing what multi-client MIDI is', is only a rip-off for yourself.

If your CLIENTS (namely hosts, sequencers, MIDI editors, or whatever) simply don't see the same port at the same time without taking control of the port, then this is another issue altogether.

I'm piping sysex, DMX lighting and laser control, MIDI note data, controller data, etc. down multiple ports in Scope, and SOME of these data streams share the same channel without having to trick it into accepting multi-UART driver stuff like MOTU does (if it was stable in many applications such as I've attempted in the past, then I'd use it).

If your clients can't distinguish what's coming down the pipe (i.e filtering, etc.), then you're wasting your own time.

Scope's ports are not multiclient like MOTU's infernal antiquated approach, but they are channel share-able, mergeable, etc. downstream.

I expect S/C to say that multiclient isn't possible - and was probably never requested, since it already IS possible to do multi-porting.

Noone has ever asked if the so-called multi-client approach in and of itself was a workaround limitation of the old UART interface.

If S/C has time to build in multi-client support, then I think they'd probably do it.

Greg

p.s. with the advent of the U-Suck-Bigtime (USB) interface over the past several years, the MIDI protocol has been drastically neutered, but may be in for a comeback - hence the development of such apps as MIDI-OX came along.