Dick Armey Fired From DLA Piper

[braincell]

Dick Armey has been fired from DLA Piper because of his association the "Freedom Works", the fake grass roots organization actually funded by corporate lobby groups which is behind the heckling at town hall meetings on health care reform.

Oh Yes!

[siriusbliss]

Tip of the iceberg.

The whole thing is a dog-n-pony show.

Health care is a failure, and won't be fixed.

G

[braincell]

It will be fixed when people realize what bastards the rethuglicans are.

[garyb]

they want people to die. they won't fix anything. it will be worse.

[valis]

The whole thing is a dog-n-pony show.

Hey that's my catchphrase! Yours was Hegelian Dialectic I believe...

[astroman]

well, I can sum up a brief history of the health care system Brain is waiting for
it was established in time of great solidarity among common people
(the upper class never did care anyway)
everybody considered it a personal duty to contribute and only requested service when needed
things got (economically) better over the year
to the same degree people collected personal wealth, solidarity dropped
the health care fee was (still is) proportional to the income (the more income, the higher the fee)
suddenly the personal health care fee was regarded as a significant amount of cash
the original idea of solidarity and duty was given up towards a ... if I pay so much for nothing, it's a waste. Got to get something out of it...

This led to increased consultations, fake medical services ('prophylatic' treatments away from home were holidays infact), and also faked symptoms to get a medical attest that you were'nt able to work at the moment.
Your employer had to continue to pay wages up to 4 weeks, afterwards the health assurance took over both medical costs and wages.
Needless to mention that physicians, pharma industry and distributors, even (public) local tourist agencies took advantage of the situation.
After all it was (considered) more or less 'public' money and few felt a personal responsibility, as a few decades ago.

Technology had elvolved significantly and marketing had reached not only the physician, but also their 'customers'.
The choice of physician was a matter of prestige and the most prestigous usually had the latest and most impressive technology. A spiral had been started.
Medical technology is almost comparable to a monopoly (or a drug cartell...) with no real choice of prices.

As a physician you couldn't just finish your diploma and offer service with a reasonable investment anymore.
All those must-haves typically summed up to start with a 300k to 600k Euro debt.
Which slaved the medical service to the credit department of the next local bank.
You got to have that specific number of patients (payed by public healthcare) for statistics sake.
Otherwise the bank would refuse finance.
Only very well known specialists could afford to treat only(!) for individual payment.

The rule is: if a physician is 'certified' to treat for public health care, he (or she) cannot refuse any patient asking for service. The service must be supplied.
This reduces the number of patients where the physician does individual billing and negotiating of prices.

This leaves a situation where an identical treatment is paid in 2 ways, with differences up to factor 4.
Would you work as hard for 1 quarter of the payment ?
Effectively this has established a so-called 2-class health care.

to be honest, the original idea of a public health care service wasn't bad at all
call it duty, call it responsibility or whatever, but without solidarity you can right bury any such system.
and how much solidarity do you find when you look around ?
that's the crucial question...

cheers, Tom

[siriusbliss]

The whole thing is a dog-n-pony show.

Hey that's my catchphrase! Yours was Hegelian Dialectic I believe...

Yeah, people need to study the Hegalian Dialectic. Problem/reaction/solution.

The oligarchs guised under BOTH Dems and Repubs as front-men force-selling us a 'solution' to a 'problem' that they created. It's the SOLUTION you have to watch out for. It's NOT going to work due to costs, corruption in the insurance mafia, and the quality-of-care will continue to go down. The drug-pushers will continue to strive for profits, and the insurance companies will continue to hold false-claims over the doctors' heads. The insurance and pharmaceutical companies OWN the government.

Brain, you can continue to live in flatland and blame the Republicans for everything, but truth is that the 'left guard' Dems are serving as front-men for the Elitists agenda (so-called solution) as well. The Reps open the door, and the Dems walk in. Everyone's poop stinks, and it's up to us to hold them accountable.

I can barely afford my own healthcare, let alone pay more taxes for illegals to get a free ride, and the compassionate side of me wants to help, but not at the added expense of the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies (pushing ever-more-dangerous ineffective crap down our throats), and NOW the gubement wants to get it's chit as well, which means TAXES. Obomba is a ruse for the banking elite that funded him into office, so he's gonna make someone pay, and it's NOT me.

If people can't see through the veil of lies, then I guess a lot MORE people will suffer, and it's very sad and aggrevating.

The so-called swine flu epidemic that they're already brainwashing us into being afraid of, will be the next 'problem' that will enable the gubernment to offer up it's forced 'solution' of mandatory vaccinations that are not proven (and contain mercury and a bunch of other needless crap).

G

[astroman]

during holidays in Greece I learned about this stuff
it's almost completely unknown here in Germany, for good reason... it can easily subsitute a ton of industrie products.
Well, substitute isn't exactly the right term - in fact the plant is the real McCoy
It was considered holy by ancient cultures in that region.
Clears the throat in an amazing way, so it may well serve as beverage in the studio during vocal recordings.
The taste is rather specific, but not too strong - works as hot and cold tea, refreshing.
I never tried this but would expect it to mix well with a bit of lemon, orange or grapefruit.

Back to health care:
it's extremely difficult to get public figures on fatalities due to side effects of drug treatment.
But the number is frightening... it's several times higher than all accidents (traffic, home, work) summed up.
Add the fact that any hospital treatment (> 2 weeks) bears a 10% risk to catch a serious infection not related to your original illness which ends deadly in about every 3rd case. The figures may not be precise, but the magnitude is...
All of this doesn't come for free of course... it costs a sh*tload of money

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

Somehow other countries with less money than we have can afford it. The wars are expensive yet I don't see a monthly bill for the wars. Even under Obama's plan, they are still going to bill us! Which means rich people are going to be paying the same amount as middle class people and the young and healthy will probably not buy it since it is not mandatory. This will put a huge strain on the system. All this to avoid "socialism" because of all the inbreds in rural areas who equate that with communism. The lobby groups are feeding their ignorance.

I am waiting for Obama to face an angry mob in a few minutes .

[siriusbliss]

I am waiting for Obama to face an angry mob in a few minutes .

I doubt that will happen as long as his handlers filter the audiences into friendly faces, and keeps all the 'foes' outside.

Like I said - dog-n-pony circus show.

[braincell]

I like what he's saying about new regulations on insurance companies. I noticed when he drinks water, he puts the cap back on. I wonder if they told him to do that.

[garyb]

it'd be nice if the powers that be did everything for the benefit of human beings, but they don't. real is real.

[braincell]

Perhaps we need to be more like Europe where the government actually cares more about people than they do here. We have been deregulating industries for decades.

[garyb]

perhaps, you're fooling yourself. super wealthy people who control government activity don't care about commoners and they never will, no matter what country one is in. the wealthy ALWAYS are well taken care of. the poor are ALWAYS on their own. one theory is that the poor are too weak to matter...

[nightscope]

the poor are ALWAYS on their own.

Maybe in US. In UK even homeless folks are treated in any town. Free, gratis and for nothing.

ns

[garyb]

the homeless get free care here too. if you think it's even remotely the same as treatment for the wealthy in either country, you're not being honest. emergency care is easy. care for chronic issues is harder...

[garyb]

Thomas Malthus wrote:

“Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country, we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlements in all marsh and unwholesome situations. But above all, we should reprobate [condemn/censure] specific remedies for ravaging diseases; and those benevolent, but much mistaken men, who have thought they were doing a service to mankind by projecting schemes for the total extirpation of particular disorders”

[nightscope]

Thomas Malthus wrote:

“Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country, we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlements in all marsh and unwholesome situations. But above all, we should reprobate [condemn/censure] specific remedies for ravaging diseases; and those benevolent, but much mistaken men, who have thought they were doing a service to mankind by projecting schemes for the total extirpation of particular disorders”

This illustrate's your previous point very well. Malthus himself did not live in a toilet and never would have. But thought that everyone else should. I wonder what he died from.

ns

[garyb]

commoners are only of use as laborers, otherwise, they are a direct threat to those who own and rule and to the owner/ruler's agendas. now that the technological world is built, the commoners are not required and are actually a liability. they must be eliminated.

i'm not sure what Malthus died of. i know he lived about 70 years and that he married his cousin, as the "noble" inbreds tend to do...

[nightscope]

i'm not sure what Malthus died of. i know he lived about 70 years and that he married his cousin, as the "noble" inbreds tend to do...

I studied him at University but remember very little. Apart from the blindingly obvious fact that more folks would need more food. The nobles end up doing their cousins a lot because they don't get out much.

Good health to all and sundry.

ns