Now 5.0's due out next week, how are you going to handle the upgrade?
- Run 4.5 on existing projects while testing 5.0 for stability etc?
- move existing projects immediately?
- a bit of both (current projects 4.5, new on 5.0)?
It probably a no brainer but I am interested in your thoughts
maus
How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
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netguyjoel
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Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
slowly...methodically...
I'm just kidding..all of your old devices that do not require keys will work fine. all the OEM stuff works fine too..
I'm just kidding..all of your old devices that do not require keys will work fine. all the OEM stuff works fine too..
Joel
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
Understand devices should work, I am not concerned about keys etc.
My interest was in committing (critical) projects to new software, with the possibility of having to do rework by (in 4.5) if issues arise for any reason with 5.0.
Just wanted to understand people's strategies and approaches to adopting the new 5.0.
maus
My interest was in committing (critical) projects to new software, with the possibility of having to do rework by (in 4.5) if issues arise for any reason with 5.0.
Just wanted to understand people's strategies and approaches to adopting the new 5.0.
maus
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
Good point mausmuso.
For XTC user, they have to take care that the preset path is stored in cubase project. If they change the path (scope45 to scope5 for example) they'll have to reload their presets. Normally there is an automatic search which will take care of this, but I don't remember if manual adjustment done after preset loading will be maintained. So take care!
cheers
For XTC user, they have to take care that the preset path is stored in cubase project. If they change the path (scope45 to scope5 for example) they'll have to reload their presets. Normally there is an automatic search which will take care of this, but I don't remember if manual adjustment done after preset loading will be maintained. So take care!
cheers
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
for projects like you describe, i'd leave the 4.5 folder intact. just remove Scope 4.5(SFP) from the startup list(start/run/msconfig/startup and uncheck it).
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soul-synthesis
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Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
i'm planning first back up my sfp files then re-ghost my drive to a fresh basic install, then dump SFP5 on.
Hopefully it will be smooth and trouble free, especially with 3rd party devices.
Hopefully it will be smooth and trouble free, especially with 3rd party devices.
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
Normally, the devices parameters are not the same as the the internal circuit of a device. So with most devices, if they are well done, 4.5 projects should work immediately in Scope 5, even in the case of changes in the internals of a device like mixers etc... it may depend on how the device "parametrization" is done on each device (projects are a bit like "big presets").
There are several things to do first though:
PRESETS: go inside your preset folder, you make ctrl+a to select them all, and copy/paste into the new scope 5 preset folder, overwriting thoise which have a same name, and leaving intact those with different names (like the new X versions of the mixers and other devices).. You can also import one by one the preset list and copy/paste whole banks at once (shift + select first and last preset in the right preset list (brown, source)+ copy / and then paste in the destination bank ((left, blue).
It is clear that current devices presets work in 5.0 so it is all good in this respect. It would be diffreent if the presets from the devices have been completely redone, or have different "ids" in the projects. which is possible, but it is such a long and unecessary process that i don't see why it would have been done in Scope 5 for pci cards.
PROJECTS: in scope 4.5 devices are loaded from where they were saved with absolute path : so a project can load devices from any folder of any disk of your computer if that's the way you saved it. So you may need to delete the scope 4.5 folder after having copied all 3rd parties devices to the new scope 5 folder (to avoid duplicates, and to avoid scope 5 to load devices from the old 4.5 folder) . Then you set the Search Options to look in the new scope 5 folder, and the project will find the devices automatically that way. under the condition that scope 5 works the same as scope 4.5, which seems to be the case.... Devices with a new name will have to be loaded manually though, when the Scope reference resolver ask you to do so (which will be the case if the device names are different like the stm "x" versions on xite).
I intend to make a hard disk backup of scope 4.5 folders (copy/paste), and then simply overwrite my "scope" folder, and then copy/paste presets and 3rd party device to the new install (that will be in the same old folder, so there won't be need to set the search options in that case). it should take less than 5 minutes to do.... and as i copied the scope 4.5 folders to another disk, i can always pick devs or presets from there if needed.
You may also want to make a cd of the Scope 5 "devices" folder, with all files/folders with the same date, and then copy/paste this cd to overwrite your installed "devices" folder, so all devices have the same date in case you want the context menus to show all devices alphabetically rather than by date (that's the way scope 4.5 work, may be it won't be necessary on scope 5).
This is necessary only for the "device" folder... you don't need the dsp to have that same date, eventhough it doesn't change anything in the way scope works if you do it anyways...
to do this process the way it should be, you should press "paste" from the cd, at the first seconds of a new minute, so all files are copied with the same date, hour, and minute... (i think only the day counts, but i don't remember exactly). unless your cd player is very slow and takes ages to copy the device folder.... in that case, you will need to copy/paste folders of the device folders one by one, in order for the content of those folders to have the same date.
In fact, only the content of the "Effects" folder need to have the same date, as only effects are concerned by context menus. the synths, plugins etc don't need to have the same date as they are not devices that you load in inserts slots using the context menus.
it's clear now , no ?
There are several things to do first though:
PRESETS: go inside your preset folder, you make ctrl+a to select them all, and copy/paste into the new scope 5 preset folder, overwriting thoise which have a same name, and leaving intact those with different names (like the new X versions of the mixers and other devices).. You can also import one by one the preset list and copy/paste whole banks at once (shift + select first and last preset in the right preset list (brown, source)+ copy / and then paste in the destination bank ((left, blue).
It is clear that current devices presets work in 5.0 so it is all good in this respect. It would be diffreent if the presets from the devices have been completely redone, or have different "ids" in the projects. which is possible, but it is such a long and unecessary process that i don't see why it would have been done in Scope 5 for pci cards.
PROJECTS: in scope 4.5 devices are loaded from where they were saved with absolute path : so a project can load devices from any folder of any disk of your computer if that's the way you saved it. So you may need to delete the scope 4.5 folder after having copied all 3rd parties devices to the new scope 5 folder (to avoid duplicates, and to avoid scope 5 to load devices from the old 4.5 folder) . Then you set the Search Options to look in the new scope 5 folder, and the project will find the devices automatically that way. under the condition that scope 5 works the same as scope 4.5, which seems to be the case.... Devices with a new name will have to be loaded manually though, when the Scope reference resolver ask you to do so (which will be the case if the device names are different like the stm "x" versions on xite).
I intend to make a hard disk backup of scope 4.5 folders (copy/paste), and then simply overwrite my "scope" folder, and then copy/paste presets and 3rd party device to the new install (that will be in the same old folder, so there won't be need to set the search options in that case). it should take less than 5 minutes to do.... and as i copied the scope 4.5 folders to another disk, i can always pick devs or presets from there if needed.
You may also want to make a cd of the Scope 5 "devices" folder, with all files/folders with the same date, and then copy/paste this cd to overwrite your installed "devices" folder, so all devices have the same date in case you want the context menus to show all devices alphabetically rather than by date (that's the way scope 4.5 work, may be it won't be necessary on scope 5).
This is necessary only for the "device" folder... you don't need the dsp to have that same date, eventhough it doesn't change anything in the way scope works if you do it anyways...
to do this process the way it should be, you should press "paste" from the cd, at the first seconds of a new minute, so all files are copied with the same date, hour, and minute... (i think only the day counts, but i don't remember exactly). unless your cd player is very slow and takes ages to copy the device folder.... in that case, you will need to copy/paste folders of the device folders one by one, in order for the content of those folders to have the same date.
In fact, only the content of the "Effects" folder need to have the same date, as only effects are concerned by context menus. the synths, plugins etc don't need to have the same date as they are not devices that you load in inserts slots using the context menus.
it's clear now , no ?
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
Ooops, there is a big flaw in my above post which doesn't take in consideration the fact the scope 5 devs with the same name may include updates, nor the fact that the structure of the sub-folders of the device folder may have changed.
Of course, you should read install instructions from SC when they are available, but for third party devices, the process should be like below.
So here is a revised "best practice" (subject to final instructions from SC).
First, do you really need to bring "critical projects" at 5.0 stage ? if you want to continue using your scope 4.x projects as usual, just install 5.0 on a different folder. 5.x will be used for new projects.
Otherwise you can try this:
1- Copy/paste your current scope install to another disk/partition (this will be explained later below).
2- Make another copy of that scope install, where you will keep only 3rd parties devices (delete all the other non-3rd parties device). For simplicty, let's call it "4.5-3rd party only" folder
3- i would probably delete the scope 4.5 original install, but not unisinstalling it (in case the drivers are needed in the future for example).
4- now install scope 5 as instructed
5- copy the 3rd party devices from the "4.5-3rd party only" backup to the new install
6- now copy third parties preset list to the new scope5 install preste folder.
7- Test if new and old presets are the same, if yes, then you can just copy/paste all presets from your scope backups to the new scope 5 install "Presets" folder.
8-if needed, do the cd-with all files-same date process explained at the end of the previous post.
Using your old scope 4.5
===================
- In your Scope 4.5 backup, open the cset.ini, and "search and replace" the old location with the new one (ex c:\Scope replaced by D:\Scope 4.5 backup\ ) (you can do a "search and replace all at once).Pay attention to the fact that sometimes you have slash and sometimes anti-slash (C:\Scope and C:/Scope , so the replace process may have to be done twice).
- Now scope 4.5 should be able to run from its new location (and as we didn't desinstall it, the driver in window should be ok).
- And, as we have deleted the original install, the old projects will not find the required devices, so set the "Search Options" to look in your new backup folder to import the original devices so old projects will load noramlly (set the search options to "all module type" and presets included, and make sure to uncheck anything pointing to the previous disk and/or old locations of scope4.x). That's the main reason why Scope has been copied to another disk/partition.
- Then go on your desktop and delete any shortcuts to scope 4.5, and replace them by new ones pointing to the new scope.exe file in the new backup folder.
I guess that's it.. again, you should in any case read instructions from SC when they are available...
Of course, you should read install instructions from SC when they are available, but for third party devices, the process should be like below.
So here is a revised "best practice" (subject to final instructions from SC).
First, do you really need to bring "critical projects" at 5.0 stage ? if you want to continue using your scope 4.x projects as usual, just install 5.0 on a different folder. 5.x will be used for new projects.
Otherwise you can try this:
1- Copy/paste your current scope install to another disk/partition (this will be explained later below).
2- Make another copy of that scope install, where you will keep only 3rd parties devices (delete all the other non-3rd parties device). For simplicty, let's call it "4.5-3rd party only" folder
3- i would probably delete the scope 4.5 original install, but not unisinstalling it (in case the drivers are needed in the future for example).
4- now install scope 5 as instructed
5- copy the 3rd party devices from the "4.5-3rd party only" backup to the new install
6- now copy third parties preset list to the new scope5 install preste folder.
7- Test if new and old presets are the same, if yes, then you can just copy/paste all presets from your scope backups to the new scope 5 install "Presets" folder.
8-if needed, do the cd-with all files-same date process explained at the end of the previous post.
Using your old scope 4.5
===================
- In your Scope 4.5 backup, open the cset.ini, and "search and replace" the old location with the new one (ex c:\Scope replaced by D:\Scope 4.5 backup\ ) (you can do a "search and replace all at once).Pay attention to the fact that sometimes you have slash and sometimes anti-slash (C:\Scope and C:/Scope , so the replace process may have to be done twice).
- Now scope 4.5 should be able to run from its new location (and as we didn't desinstall it, the driver in window should be ok).
- And, as we have deleted the original install, the old projects will not find the required devices, so set the "Search Options" to look in your new backup folder to import the original devices so old projects will load noramlly (set the search options to "all module type" and presets included, and make sure to uncheck anything pointing to the previous disk and/or old locations of scope4.x). That's the main reason why Scope has been copied to another disk/partition.
- Then go on your desktop and delete any shortcuts to scope 4.5, and replace them by new ones pointing to the new scope.exe file in the new backup folder.
I guess that's it.. again, you should in any case read instructions from SC when they are available...
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siriusbliss
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Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
geezy chrimeny
I'm going to try to keep it simple:
I'll need diapers if both versions really run at the same time.
At some point I'm presuming I'll just leave 4.5 behind in some dark corner of some drive somewhere like I did with 1.0, 2.0, 3.x, and 4.0...
I'll worry about keys later on (if it's an issue).
Greg
I'm going to try to keep it simple:
- pop a beer
back up 4.5 folder on neighboring drive (already have a backup anyways)
For kicks set a system restore point
sip beer
For paranoia purposes maybe do an updated image of the main drive (already done anyways)
slurp more bbeeyyeeerr
install Scope 5 in it's own folder and then use a program like Beyond Compare (free 30-day trial) to do an a/b comparison/overwrite of critical presets, etc. folder by folder.
Map Scope 5 default folders and maybe a new project folder.
finish beer
I'll need diapers if both versions really run at the same time.
At some point I'm presuming I'll just leave 4.5 behind in some dark corner of some drive somewhere like I did with 1.0, 2.0, 3.x, and 4.0...
I'll worry about keys later on (if it's an issue).
Greg
Xite rig - ADK laptop - i7 975 3.33 GHz Quad w/HT 8meg cache /MDR3-4G/1066SODIMM / VD-GGTX280M nVidia GeForce GTX 280M w/1GB DDR3
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
that's about right....
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siriusbliss
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Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
come on down and we'll have a beer.garyb wrote:that's about right....
Greg
Xite rig - ADK laptop - i7 975 3.33 GHz Quad w/HT 8meg cache /MDR3-4G/1066SODIMM / VD-GGTX280M nVidia GeForce GTX 280M w/1GB DDR3
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
im going to shut my PC for months and wait OSX drivers..
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
A dumb question - what advantages, if any, exist with Vista over XP (32 bit)? Is it even worth upgrading to Vista just because I can? Are there any real-world audio advantages or is all of this just the usual MS method to generate cash flow? Perhaps, a better question is, does it make sense at this point in time or should I continue to wait until XP is dead as a doornail? I really have no issues with XP that I'm aware of.
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netguyjoel
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siriusbliss
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Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
I've skipped Vista and probably won't even do the Windows 7 switchover for at least another year.krizrox wrote:A dumb question - what advantages, if any, exist with Vista over XP (32 bit)? Is it even worth upgrading to Vista just because I can? Are there any real-world audio advantages or is all of this just the usual MS method to generate cash flow? Perhaps, a better question is, does it make sense at this point in time or should I continue to wait until XP is dead as a doornail? I really have no issues with XP that I'm aware of.
Otherwise no real need for it that I can see unless you're anxious to get going on 64-bit when in actuality nothing is really fully 64-bit yet.
Greg
Xite rig - ADK laptop - i7 975 3.33 GHz Quad w/HT 8meg cache /MDR3-4G/1066SODIMM / VD-GGTX280M nVidia GeForce GTX 280M w/1GB DDR3
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netguyjoel
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Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
I'm not anxious to make any change at all. I could care less about 64 bit. 64 bit. Yeah right. Just what I need to record the local punk rock bands who don't know how to tune their guitars. 
But in the back of my mind I wonder why get all worked up over Vista drivers when Vista is already on it's way out. Is this just a case of "too little too late" on Sonic Core's part or is there a real advantage to SFP V5 other than the tie-in to the new hardware offerings?
Is there anything in Vista 32, anything at all, that warrants the upgrade in terms of audio? To me it looked like XP with a lot of window dressing.
Aside from being thankful for any activity at all from our mothership, what is there to actually jump for joy about? I like my current Scope boards just fine. If I'm not going to make the jump to Vista, why even bother upgrading to SFP 5? Does anyone even know if there's any real improvement or advantage for us Scope users who don't plan or want to change?
But in the back of my mind I wonder why get all worked up over Vista drivers when Vista is already on it's way out. Is this just a case of "too little too late" on Sonic Core's part or is there a real advantage to SFP V5 other than the tie-in to the new hardware offerings?
Is there anything in Vista 32, anything at all, that warrants the upgrade in terms of audio? To me it looked like XP with a lot of window dressing.
Aside from being thankful for any activity at all from our mothership, what is there to actually jump for joy about? I like my current Scope boards just fine. If I'm not going to make the jump to Vista, why even bother upgrading to SFP 5? Does anyone even know if there's any real improvement or advantage for us Scope users who don't plan or want to change?
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
krizrox, AFAIK you don't need to move away from XP to use Scope 5. I'm not expecting a world of difference between SFP4.5 and SCP5, nor is anyone. There are a few new devices (the x-reverbs, eg) and some cosmetic changes, as you can see in Jimmy's posts, and also some minor improvements, for instance the CC mapping is now stored for the synths, and so on... But, since it's supposed to be a total rewrite of the SFP software, I guess we all expect to see some improvement in the overall workability of the system, even in the traditional PCI boards.
But I agree with you in this: it's already pretty good as it is
Cheerz,
T
But I agree with you in this: it's already pretty good as it is
Cheerz,
T
Re: How are you going to handle the Upgrade to 5.0?
Well imho, anytime a new driver is written it's a chance to improve on the most important things like reliability, efficiency and things like working better with hardware that wasn't yet invented when the last driver was written. Soooo maybe version 5 will not be so picky about things like irq sharing and aspi drivers and all the other little tweaks we've been forced to deal with all these years. Can't wait to see the loads of tests and tweaks posted on Z when it finally comes.
Dan
Dan