Creamware (sonic core) Scope

[nesom]

Hi,

I am interested in this technology but would like to know do sonice core have plans to make a PCIe version of their adapters and if not what PCI version do they currently support?

Thank you

[next to nothing]

Hi

They are about to release the new Xite-1 PCIe solution. go to www.soniccore.com for more details.

[firubbi]

here we're more than 200 ppl are waiting for xite-1.. don't miss that
price a bit expansive.. but it has 10x power than scope pro(15dsp)

[kwild]

Oh yes soon...

But remember the word "soon" in Sonic Whore's language means something totally different...

[nesom]

Thanks all,

So it was never even 2.1 compliant, what a shame. I was considering 2nd hand just to try XTC mode on the 3 DSP model, any ideas on how many instances of a synth I can have?

Thank you

[garyb]

it depends on the synth. many voices for a typical synth-edit style garbage device(which might be just right for a particular piece of music). maybe only one voice if it's something spectacular.

what's the point of caring about the computer end more than the audio end? for most people who are making music in their bedrooms to impress themselves, i guess it doesn't matter. the computer, as a gadget or toy is the main point for those people.

[nesom]

what's the point of caring about the computer end more than the audio end? for most people who are making music in their bedrooms to impress themselves, i guess it doesn't matter. the computer, as a gadget or toy is the main point for those people.

True, but it would be nice to know more about the capabilities of this thing in real life and I'm sure contributors to this thread would know.

Anyhow, how does this scope stuff work anyway in relation to already existing hardware? The XTC mode sounds rather interesting.

I've looked at competing models such as UAD and wasn't so impressed that the included plug-in's don't allow purely mono instances like SSL Deunde for example and there seems many complaints about TC Electronic.

It would seem that Creamware (for want of a better name) are quite commited to their products in relation to software, maybe no 64 bit but even declaring Vista compatibility for older systems is a great plus these days so that's why I am a bit disappointed at the 5 Volt spec.

Firewire sure is ok as I have a duende but is shocking under ASIO so I must use WDM which seems to be fine for now on C4 but I think C5 has better support.

Many issues here.

Thanks

[garyb]

firewire is a terrible idea for audio. it's easy on the end user, however. that sells units.

Scope works quite well with the current computer hardware and will work for some time still. the new box is looking pretty over the top(i've had a chance to demo it), but waiting for it is trying.

XTC mode works well, for the most part, it's not perfect, but it is quite functional. personally, i think that XTC mode hides the card's greatest asset, creative freedom. i don't think the sequencer should be the center of the studio, it's only a multitrack recorder. when in Scope mode, everything in the real world, compressors, reverbs etc, interfaces with the virtual world, and in realtime. everything in the virtual world, also interfaces with other things the virtual world in realtime. Scope plugins work in realtime, at the speed of hardware, so live use is possible.

Scope is a matter of buying real gear of the highest quality, it is real audio tools, like buying hardware. it is not a toy(though it's fun like one for those who like audio gear and synthesizers), but a tool to be used for 10 or 20 years or more(even as a multi i/o effects box or synth module in an old p3 you got for free, it's worth owning and using), not just a product to be tossed in the trash when the fashion wears off. it's just my opinion again, but Scope is the biggest no-brainer investment for anyone serious about quality sound if money IS an object....

those other dsp solutions are good products, and they can even be used by someone with Scope cards, but they are not realtime, nor are they comparable. with a few notable exceptions, there's nothing you'd mis from them with Scope and a few of the additional and 3rd party offerings, and there are a number of things that those other cards don't have(too many to even bother listing). the only comparable system is Pro Tools HD and Kyma, and both are WAY more expensive. Kyma only has advantages in certain kinds of experimental synthesis and PTHD is only better in it's dedicated hardware controller.

[nesom]

Hi and thanks for replying.

So are you saying that XTC mode since only using the DSP's for sound generation and mixing really is under utilising the technology since all or most other solutions merely are there for mixing anyway?

Therefore my question is:

Can scope hardware be used to record with and how does it work in with a DAW such as cubase for example?

[King of Snake]

sure you can record with it. Scope interfaces with your sequencer via ASIO. You can route all signals in and out of your computer and between Scope and your ASIO host sequencer freely and with no latency, all trough a straightforward and easy to use routing window (just draw virtual cables from sources to destinations).

[astroman]

XTC Mode isn't exactly 'under utilising' - in fact (given you put the same devices in a project) it's demand for DSP resources is identical.
But it leaves out the possibility to insert or modify your respective processing path 'on the fly', as quickly as the 'idea' enters your mind.

Initially his may appear as a small point only, but just have a look at the new software routing capabilities in recent Cubase releases (or even Reaper) and how those are touted to press.
For a long time Scope user it's not particularily exiting, as it's been the 'mode of operation' from day 1 on, some >10 years or so...
Just like a console in a well equipped studio, but you save the patchbay, the cabling, etc
And you do a bit more, as a single source can drive arbitrary destinations with out impedance mismatch or ground loop hassle.
As Gary always emphasizes: Scope IS hardware - and it's easy to operate because it is straight forward like hardware

'Under utilising' would also be the wrong term for 'leaving out the DSP mixer' which the Scope environment provides.
In theory number crunching on whatever processor shouldn't matter much...
But experience tells that coding with regular Windoze tools can be a tricky thing.

Why do all those companies like RME (f.e) mention explicitely that they provide hardware based mixers on their cards ?
The feature is never mentioned in a shy way ... oops, sorry, but... we had to provide it on the DSP of the card,...
XTC Mode leaves the mixing job to the software of the sequencer
Not so few people will tell you that according to their ears, the Scope result sounds better
ok, it's one of the most (in)famous DAW discussions of all times

Today there's also a respectable number of third party mixers to choose from, not only general purpose, but also focussing on specific aspects of processing.

[MD69]

Scope boards are 5v PCI 2.1 compliant.
I think evaluating scope with a 3 DSP board will be quite frustrating as they were designed pre scope v3.1. They have a limited power compared to the latest scope devices.

I will not enter the SFP vs XTC war as I am an XTC supporter, but suffise to say that the 2 operating modes is quite unique on the maket and the strength of the board. Its flexibility will allow you to adapt your PC to any audio related job, not simply sequencing. It can be a pre mixer and fx processor for your sampling software for exemple. It can allow you to "link" a midi only sequencer/arranger to a audio only recording software ..... and the DSP side is reliable enought to go live.
When I look the embedded audio DSP market, I see three trends: the mix man swiss army knife (UAD), embedded FX (TC) and the musician swiss army knife (Creamware/Sonicore, receptor,...).

You'll just have to think about where are yours expectations to know what to do!

cheers

[oldspeak]

I got a question here

Does the XTC mode provide any form of mixer inside the sequencer?

As stated in this thread regarding RME, having the mixer on the card as opposed to being in the software, can I say for example use other DSP solutions such as UAD and have mixing functions on the desk such as summing and so forth or is it a similar solution thus duplicitious.

Thanks

[astroman]

XTC Mode uses the sequencer's very own mixer, that's what it's about.
The other approach would be one of the Scope mixers routed via ASIO (bidirectional) to the sequencer's tracks, simply ignoring the sequencer's internal mixer.
But as mentioned above: you can use both modes, even alternating if you pay attention to the proper reloading sequence.

cheers, Tom

[oldspeak]

Thank you.

So using the Scope mixer means I must use the Scope ASIO driver is that correct, I cannot use WDM and nor can I use other hardware such as RME or ECHO?

Thanks again

[garyb]

you can use WDM, but why? there is no advantage to WDM regardless of what Cakewalk or M$ might claim. actually, you can use both drivers in different apps at the same time...

you can use another sound card, but then you would have to route externally or stay in xtc mode and likely disable the Scope card's i/o. once again, the Scope card can do the job just fine, i don't see an advantage to using the other card, and the Scope card does things the others can not. naturally, if you disagree with me, however you can mke yourself happy with your system is good, ultimately....

[oldspeak]

Thanks garyb for the reply.

Scope does not support Wordclock except via an external interface is that correct, and thus would not allow sample accurate sync via the VST System Link protocol.

Thanks again.

[garyb]

yes, it does work with System Link.

the wordclock expansion is part of the card, as far as the rest of the world is concerned. wordclock appears inside the Scope environment with the bnc expansion...ADAT and sp/dif/aes/ebu also can carry clock.

[oldspeak]

Hello,

On the following page:

http://www.sonic-core.net/en/products/extensions.html

It makes mention of a BNC/ADAT 9 pin expansion, but nothing to do with Optical IO for example, except for ADAT which I'm not interested in at this time.

What I'd like to know is can I simply purchase a "booster" board and link it somehow to the bnc and use an optical i/o to provide sync and/or audio in cubase?

Thanks again

[garyb]

"optical i/o" is either 8 channel and called "ADAT Lightpipe", or 2 channel and called "Sp/dif". you don't need to use bnc to transmit digital(word)clock. both optical formats and the rca sp/dif and the xlr aes/ebu can transmit sync as well. all can also be used with bnc word clock.

but yes, that can certainly be done. you can get your clock signal from, say a master clock generator, and then transmit clock and/oraudio to cubase in another computer or device, or vice versa. both clock and audio can certainly get to Cubase. i do this all the time. i'm doubting your need for bnc, however(though you are free to use it if you like, redundant or not...).

i consult and build systems. i'd be happy to speak to you offline or via pm. i don't need to sell you anything to offer advice, opinion or knowledge...although you're always free to pay me.. i'd be happy to clear up any questions you might have, or suggest a place to get reliable answers if i don't know...