ooops, maybe the ice isn't melting at all..

[garyb]

oh, measurements of sea ice were only off by a mere 500,000 square kilometers....
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2009/021809.html

[valis]

Yea heard about that on NPR a few weeks ago and read about it shortly thereafter via one of Digg's feeds. It points out another issue with their projections, that the accuracy of the data they're using is not very good.

There's a newer microwave system with the AMSR-E microwave sensor that is apparently quite accurate but they don't use the data yet. This is briefly mentioned at the bottom of your article as 'not being historically accurate' but from what the fellow said on NPR, the deviations between the datasets are actually currently in favor of the AMSR-E sensors (they give better data).

But the AMSR-E data doesn't go back nearly as far, so they're avoiding using it until there's another decade or so of data. SUPPOSEDLY deviations between these two datasets actually explain the overestimates in polar ice melting over the last few years, you'd think someone would come up with a correction to enable the use of both datasets at the same time.

[garyb]

see, what the "error" is about is putting out hysterical reports about "ice free" polar regions based on bogus data which get reported with trumpets and bright lights and then the low key correction later once public opinion has been set...

[garyb]

"we" don't set these things up, others decide what energy sources will be tapped, and how many humans need to be culled. old fashioned wars where they put 2 lines against each other and systematically exterminate both sides aren't so practical these days....

[dawman]

And after many are killed out of guilt we send them Hillary and 900,000,000 USD.......
That's what we are giving the Palestinians in the West Bank...but she demanded that there be " tranparency " in how the funds will be dispersed....
Yeah Right.......just like the new Obama Reid Pilosi " Stimulus ".
This stuff is more humorous than anything.......
I love Nevada and have to say good old Harry Reid is looking out for us.
The new train from Disneyland goes to the Moonlight Bunny Ranch in Carson City ?????
9 Billion Bucks for Harry, and a train to keep the Whores from releasing their Black Books on who visits them...
I trust the Whores of Nevada more than any Politician or all knowing Scientist....
I can just hear them now.......we were only off by 500,000 square kilometers, that's a drop in the bucket...
Someday I wish I could have a job where I could fuck up all of the time and still get paid, and break every law that I tell others to follow.....

" What A Wonderful World "......................Louis Armstrong..Capital Records.


I laughed my ass off a month ago when Al Gore was giving his speech against a backdrop of a giant Snow Blizzard in D.C......
Even the brainwashed millions that are mesmorized by his eloquence lowered their brows a wee bit.

This just In:...............March 2nd Global warming rally in DC snowed out....

http://www.capitolclimateaction.org/

They should really check out the weather station before embarrasing themselves so badly.
Actually I think they are going to change the name of the cause to Global Cooling, that is if they want to be in with the trends.....

[kensuguro]

well, at this point I think it's easier to see the effects of ice melting.. a seabed covered with dead coral is hard to refute. People having to leave islands because it's sinking, is tough to refute. (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ET_ ... 701101.cms)

I dunno about carbon offsets and the whole political crap, but the relationship between global warming and marine ecosystem is no political joke. Like I've said before, deaths of reef systems are almost impossible to revive, and would take hundreds of years to fully recover even if it was possible. It's just one of those things that people don't really feel the urgency of, because they don't see it every day, or feel the effects of it every day. But it's there, you can see it, touch it, and measure it year after year.

[valis]

There are plenty of other effects of humanity on the natural aside from just global warming/climate change. Reading up studies on the amount of plastic in parts per million in the oceans for instance is astounding. Even if the methodologies are debatable, the giant islands composed of plastic found in the Pacific are a great testimony to the consumer lifestyle...

[garyb]

well, that wouldn't be the first island to sink into the sea. they're gonna have to move. sorry, but as the spiritual says, "when the Lord get's ready, you gotta move". nothing anyone does will change that.

coral reefs are killled by pollution, not warming. stop dumping millions of gallons of old nerve gas into the oceans. perhaps, they'll stay nicer.

nothing is permanent.

the earth will have warmer and colder times. the present temps are not the average temps in 400AD(they were higher then), nor 1700AD(they were colder then). carbon footprints won't change that. but even more to the point, the earth is not even warming at the moment. arctic and antarctic ice is GROWING. the earlier figures showing a massive reduction in polar ice were flawed as this article points out. it's horrible the way bad info sticks in the public's brain even after the truth is revealed. Elvis was sighted in a Stuckey's off highway 93....

these prognostications of future weather are beyond laughable! these clowns can't even predict the weather in 5 DAYS accurately, let alone 5 YEARS...

isn't it funny that the same big institutions that control oil are the same ones trying to convince us that it's all about our use of carbon? even Al Gore is connected. his dad controlled(and his family controls) Continental Oil, one of the largest oil companies, and although he recieves no direct money, his whole power base and grub stake come from oil. it is the big banks and the oil companies that have put the most money and effort into the current green agenda. it's funny that the people involved are the same ones who promoted eugenics, and the eugenics foundations that they created, now use "sustainability" and "bioethics" as their buzzwords. one thing hasn't changed, they promote the thinning of the herd, the destruction of the common man as the solution, telling us that we must cut down, when it is them who are the biggest pigs(google Al Gore's electric bill)....


the consumer "lifestyle" is the result of "authorities" demanding that the public be dependant. a dependant public is one made of giant children. it's not the fault of the children, if the parents are irresponsible. "the crimes of the shepherd, they have never been tested, no they've never been arrested", but it's true, there are real environmental issues(easily solvable, if not quickly solvable), but the warming issue isn't one of them, not as a man-made issue, anyway.

[kensuguro]

coral reefs are killled by pollution, not warming. stop dumping millions of gallons of old nerve gas into the oceans. perhaps, they'll stay nicer.

It's a known fact that reefs have been dieing mainly because of increased distance from the surface, and also rise in water temperature. But ya, you got a point there.. nerve gas in the ocean can't be a good thing, hehe. That's crazy, why'd people do that..

[garyb]

it's been a known fact lately that the sea ice was all melting and was soon to be gone even. now we find that the sea ice is increased. it's been a known fact that CO2 is a pollutant, when the reality has always been that CO2 is fundemental to life on earth.

how's about some pictures?

[garyb]

50 years

[garyb]

100 years

[garyb]

500 years

[garyb]

400,000 years

[garyb]

you notice that 530 million years ago temperatures were no higher than any other high point in earth's history and yet atmospheric CO2 was about 7200ppm(150 million years ago CO2 was still at 2000ppm). they are expecting us to worry about 370ppm. if 7200ppm didn't make the earth a blast furnace, 370ppm certainly won't.

[valis]

Framing a simple argument from a complex subject, reducing the context to supports one particular view or another. One one hand it makes it easy to keep the subject going for whoever might need to use it for their purposes. Datasets can be polled to draw out the conclusions that are sought after. Conflicting discourse tend to polarize around the simplifying the argument further...nations need to create meetings, media uses it to fill attention spans and keep people fed with the conflict of it. Useful to create a tax...to hold lifestyles or empires accountable. And just when you think you've got the empire on the run, up comes another layer of manipulation through the very tax that was supposed to hold it accountable...

Even within local populations there's polarization: Unfeeling Power&Profit Hungry-Fat-Lazy Sheeple Patriarchy vs. Hippy Dippy Gaian Myth-seeking Estrogen-laden Intellectual Ethics.

Is it Save The Pretty Butterfly or Stand In The Way Of Jobs And Progress? Turn Off Your Damn Tv When You're Not Home or How Industry+Media Can Work Together To Insure Your Cheap Shit Breaks Even Faster (through power cycling)?

"Replace all your incandescents with CFL's so we can save on carbon output!" (How much will shipping from cheap Asian & African workforces save us again?)

"Recycle your computers here" (the recycling plant turned out to be shipping lanes back to where the CFL's came from...)

The fact that someone who can stake a serious claim to have the longest dreads in the forums is standing in opposition to what should be the Post-Hippy "Think Green" party line on this should speak for how prostituted the whole subject has become.

[Mr Arkadin]

The Greens are becoming the biggest fascists of all. Have a different view to them? Then you should be sacked: Northern Ireland's Environment Minister Sammy Wilson. Were you a well respected scientist always seen on TV and passionate about nature and the environment, but don't agree about global warming? In that case you will not be allowed back on the TV, David Bellamy knows all about this.

Worried that the public might call you out as frauds if 'global warming' isn't actually happening and things maybe actually getting colder? No problem, we'll change our buzz word to 'climate change'. Job done.

[valis]

Well just think of the balance sheets if taxes are paid simply due to 'climate change'.

Weather (sic) by any other name...

[spacef]

Hey Gary,

You could not live on earth 530 million years ago... you would choke and die in a few seconds... too much co2, very high temperature.. it was underwater cells and shells in that time, in volcanic areas (hot water and primal elements).
You had to wait for the first plants to appear (410 million years), algae especially (underwater, after gaz clouds gone out of the atmosphere (absorbed by seas and due to earth becoming colder, ie, much less volcanic activity, allowing light to pass thru and allowing photosynthesis, and plants to grow to recycle CO2 and "clean" the air.
So the conditions were met for the first amphibian to leave the sea (370 million) and the reptiles cames after that (200 million years).
Amphibians and reptile = cold blood, need high temperature and a lot of sun to store energy for the day. iguanas, they sunbath all day long..
first primates -200/-150 million years
oldest humanoid known , 7 to 10 million years

homo sapiens (us) ... 100 000 years

[next to nothing]

edit: hmm. i need to re-read.