Decisions, Decisions - can you advise?

[Neil B]

Okay, so here's the problem:

As you know, I'm still using Cubase VST32/5.1 - which I love and I'm used to.

I'm interested in buying East West Symphonic Choirs, but my Cubase won't run it (see other posts).
Omnisphere has been released & requires VST 2.4 (Cubase SX3?) at least, so probably my Cubase won't run it. The VIP upgrade offer for users of Atmosphere, Stylus RMX & Trilogy is just too good to miss.

So it looks as if my poor old Cubase has got to be put out to graze.

What do I replace it with?
Cubase 4.x is obviously one way to go but:
It won't import all my old .ALL Cubase songs - and I have lots and lots.
So, question 1 - can I run 2 versions of Cubase on one PC?

Cubase 4.x apparently can't use DX effects as inserts, although I could still use these (such as Waves etc) in Wavelab.
So, question 2 - are the effects in Cubase good enough to replace my DX ones and older VST ones that may or may not work?
And, as an aside to that - yes, I intend to use more and more of the Scope effects, but sometimes it is easier to work within Cubase at an early stage and slap in a VST band pass filter for a quick test for instance.

I don't know if all the older VST synths/samplers - MTron, Kontakt 3, Kontakt Player (Garritan Orchestra), Vanguard etc will run in Cubase 4.x
Question 3 - anyone having any problems with these older VST synths?

Cubase 4.x is a lot of money
Question 4 - should I get Cubase 4 or Cubase studio 4? (if I go down the Cubase route)

Probably, Cubase SX3 would be better for me (??) so
Question 5 - Anyone got an old SX3 for sale - English version?

And I suppose the final question should be:
Question 6 - What are my alternatives to Cubase, bearing in mind I like the style of my VST 32/5.1?

I know you all use different packages and some packages suit different musical genres, and work styles but any sensible comments would be much appreciated.
I think you all know me well enough and the types of (awful) music that I mess about with - it is a hobby only, after all, so I'm sure you'll be able to give me some good advice.

Thanks

[garyb]

1. yes, you can.

2. no, but if you mix in Scope it'll be ok. this might be a deal breaker for me.

3. yes, they work fine afaik.

4. the cutdown version is usually crippled in a bad way. i'd get the full version myself.

5. sx3 is pretty good. i'm using it and i like it. cubase 4 is pretty much the same thing with a few changes.

6. all sequencers are basically the same. they all do some things better than others. it's just a little difference in language and a few commands to learn to navigate from one sequencer to another. be brave! i do like the arrange window editing of audio in sx3 and cubase 4, that'd be my primary reason to stay there. i really don't use a lot of dx or vst effects, although i will use various romplers. if it's really just a hobby, i'd leave vst 5 on your computer for right now and download reaper and play with it for a few days. the license is only $50 and it's a pretty effective sequencer. otherwise, i'm sure you can find an used copy of sx3 for cheap.

[nightscope]

reaper

I binned Cubase for the Reapoid. Not because of the cash, I would have bought the entire SAW suite en mass if it was preferable. But, for my personal way of working, Reaper was the favourite. The fact that it's cheap it merely a bonus.

Terrific for audio and integrating with Scope. The MIDI is usable. I don't use much MIDI save for BDF2 at times and it is bugless with that. Getting Cubase tracks migrated into Reaper is a total pain. Development is extremely rapid. Totally stable with Scope, which is the BIGGEST plus for me. However, it is not for the fainthearted. Bit of a leaning curve for those not really au fait with routing, but worth learning as it's routing is very flexible. I found it very simple to change to.

But then I'm really only using it as a virtual tape machine/audio editor for Scope with the odd plugin here and there. I don't do big MIDI firefights.

ns

[Herr Voigt]

I have installed VST 5.1 and SL 3 on the same DAW, no probs. SL is enough for me, I never missed a function of SX.
I watch the Cubase forum , that's why I didn't buy any Cubase 4 version.

[Mr Arkadin]

As a Cubase VST32 5.1 user myself i am in the same boat. i have gone from Pro24 (Atari) >Cubase 3.0 (Atari) >Cubase VST3.7 (PC) >Cubase VST32 5.1 (PC) >Cubase VST32 5.1 (Mac) >Cubase VST32 5.1 (PC). Some of those newer VSTi make 5.1 seem creaky.

i have tried Reaper and didn't get on with it at all. i also didn't like the fact it had no audio editor - i just want an all-in-one solution. However unlike Cubase it's free to try so why not give it a go. i have also tried Live which was like something from a different planet for me, completely wrong for my linear thinking. Also tried Samplitude - this is OK but a bit expensive (plus i don't want to commit to PC-only software as i may be switching to a Mac once XITE-1 is out). Also the way the loops work drove me mad - i just want simple left right locaters like in Cubase. Never liked Cubase SX - just seemed as if they took VST 5.1 and made it clunky to use. If i was going to try one it would be Cubase 4 not SX.

So where does that leave me and you? No idea. If i go Mac then i'll give Logic a go i think. i really hate the idea of giving Steinberg my money - i think they are a shoddy company. Maybe the Yammy buyout has changed things.

As to whether to get the expensive one or not, i wouldn't bother, here are the differences. With all the extras you get by using Scope i can't see that the Cubase 4 additions would really benefit (unless you do 5.1 surround stuff).

[Neil B]

Thanks everyone for your replies to date.
For some reason, my email isn't informing me that I've had a reply so apologies for being a bit late getting back.

It's a real quandary isn't it?
I've always said that my music is only a simple hobby and I can't be bothered upgrading until I've mastered what I've got.
But how much longer I can hang onto VST32/5.1 I don't know.

I really feel I don't want to spend on Cubase 4 if it doesn't do what I want. Well, it will do what I want, but it means having to load all my old projects under VST32/5.1. Perhaps that isn't so bad.

Some of your descriptions of the alternatives are off putting, some are encouraging. Like Mr Arkadin, I like my left & right locaters and all those other things that I've got used to in VST.
I suppose having Cubase 4 makes me a bit more bullet-proof for the future and I can continue with 5.1 for older stuff, but then you tell me that the Cubase forum members don't like 4 either!

I'll hang on for a few more replies (hopefully) and then it's decision time. This of course isn't the biggest hurdle. The biggest hurdle will be wrestling the money out of my wife's purse

Anyway, thanks for the replies..... the saga continues

[braincell]

Did you see my post about importing your old Cubase songs into Cubase 4?


http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 31&t=25985


I tried it and it works well.

I disagree that Cubase 4 is the same as Cubase 3. Cubase 4 has new effects and they updated most of the older effects and they sound much better. The effects are using more bits or something. I don't now what they did but I can clearly hear a difference.

[Shroomz~>]

Still using SX2 here without any problems Neil. Can't remember which revision off hand, but it works very well indeed. I've seen boxed copies of SX2 selling on ebay for next to nothing, like less than £50. Might be worth a try for that sort of money. It's not like you'd be losing much if you didn't like it & you could even just sell it on again without any loss at all if you decided to get SX3 or go for 4.

cheers,
Mark

[Neil B]

Thanks Schroomz
I think SX2 is VST 2.3 and Omnisphere spec is 2.4
Having said that I emailed Spectrasonics techies and they reckon Omnisphere should work in 32/5.1, but it isn't tested and wouldn't be supported.

Braincell
I had read your topic and that was one of the things that got me doing a bit more research, so thanks for that.
It creates a couple more questions though:
Will VST 32/5.1 .ALL files load into SX3 okay, so that I can then take the SX3 files into version 4? (what a job!!!)
Is the dongle the same for SX3 as it is for 4? What I mean is, is there anything that is going to prohibit me from running SX3? Or does the version 4 licence/dongle cover that?

Keep it going folks - I'm straightening my head out with every reply

I think what I'm going to do (and this is today's idea) is to buy the Omnisphere upgrade and try it with VST32/5.1
If it works, I'll forget about East West Choirs for a while and Cubase upgrade too.
If it doesn't work, I'll put some form of chemical in my wife's coffee, such that I can break into her purse while she is out of it and then buy Cubase 4
The VIP upgrade to Omnisphere is only about £90 UK so it's worth the gamble.

[Neil B]

Just seen this on Ebay
Comments on price, risk etc?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 3DWatching

[JoeKa]

Well, I'm also still using Cubase VST5.1 for midi. (and Sam 10 for audio)
When I bought the RP Predator synth last year, which says VST2.4, too, I found it to work on the old Cubase as well. I guess the vst interface is basically a compatible design in both directions.
I don't know about the specific issues with the symph choirs wordbuilder tool, though.

[Neil B]

I think in terms of the Omnisphere spec, they test the gear down to, say, version SX3 but not earlier versions.
So, in that respect they have no idea if it'll work on VST32/5.1 and therefore can't include it in the spec.

East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Choirs definitely won't run on 5.1 though.

Thanks JoeKa

[braincell]

Neil, the version 3 in the link I posted is free for all people who own Cubase 4. It is designed to load on the same dongle as 4 and live on the same computer. I don't know if you can import your version into it or not.

[Neil B]

Thanks for that Braincell

Incidentally - does Cubase 4 now make it easier to use Scope for mixing.
To explain - I think I've read somewhere (Cubase forums?) that the midi and audio tracks are "linked together" better or more intuitively.

So, I posted this a long time ago:

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 14&t=24669 regarding mixing in Scope

It seems that Cubase 4 may make this simpler - any thoughts & comments?

[Mr Arkadin]

Well the way you originally worked was almost the exact opposite of how i work. i think you now do it the way i (and many others) do, ie. buss everything to a Scope mixer and then output that stereo mix to Asio Dest. i can't imagine there's any other way of doing it in Cubase 4.

[Neil B]

I love this credit crisis that is affecting retailers.
I also love my wife..........

Music shops doing a bit badly so with a bit of coercion I've got Cubase 4, full version, plus East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Choirs (& an ilok) due for delivery in the morning ............ with a discount of £250 UK ($450 US)

Can't grumble at that can I?

Also the Omnisphere VIP upgrade comes in at £96 instead of the full price of £299

Am I a happy bunny?

Seriously, thanks for all your help. I'll no doubt be calling on you again to get all the beggars (Cubase especially) running properly.

A big thank you