S.O.S

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:26 am

Hi guys,

I hope you can help me out here.

I bought a used card but the guy has only provided the license file and not all the software that is included. Can you help me find how and where to download the following, I would appreciate that a lot,

"bx_digital" "bx_digital_update" "DAS SL9000 "DAS N1084EQ" "DAS A550EQ" "DAS Polteq" "DAS RMX160" "DAS Daynpara_ms" "DAS 2A" "DAS 1610" "Spectral Balance Controller" "dynatube JM" "dynatube FT" "dynatube MB" "dynatube VX" "dynatubeBASS_SW" "dynatubeBASS_AG" "Scope Fusion Platform" "Main Studiotools Package" "Mixer Package 1" "Mixer Package 2" "Synthesizer Package 1" "Synthesizer Package 2" "Effects Package 1" "Effects Package 2" "SCOPE 4.0 Software" "Pulsar Application" "Pulsar PRO Package" "Pulsar XTC" "Scope SP Application" "Scope SP Mixer" "Luna" "Luna3" "Luna Mixer (RM242)" "Luna Mixer (SM166)" "Modular V2 / Elektra" "Modular V3" "Volkszampler" "Power Sampler" "STS-2000P" "STS-3000" "STS-4000" "STS-5000" "Arpeg 01" "Arpeg 02" "OptiMaster""PSY Q"" "B-2003" "CreamWare Pro One" "ProdysseyNOAH" "CreamWare Pro12" "Interpole" "VDAT" "Grenzfrequenz Synchrotron" "SPL Attacker" "SPL Transient Designer" "Zarg Master Class" "Zarg Orion V2" "Zarg Orion Custom" "Zarg Comb Pro 2" "Zarg Dark Star" "Zarg Ambient" "Zarg Red Dwarf" "Zarg Rotor Seq" "Zarg Rotor Jr." "Zarg Pro One" "Zarg Python Pro" "Zarg RD Module Pack" "Zarg Prophet" "Zarg Prophet Plus" "Zarg Orion Custom EX" "Z-Plane Z.Matrix" "Poison FM" "Master Verb Pro" "Vintage Compressor" "Vocodizer" "GraphEQ" "Minimax" "Vectron" "SB 404" "EDS 16i"

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:38 am

try here for the additional plugins:

ftp://ftp.creamware.de/Software/Scope_family/nokeys_OXE

and get the basic software here:

ftp://ftp.creamware.de/Software/Scope_f ... cope4.5_PC

-greetings, markus-

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:50 am

Or try http://www.sonic-core.net/en/support/download.html - the new downloads section at the new Sonic Core site.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:22 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:Or try http://www.sonic-core.net/en/support/download.html - the new downloads section at the new Sonic Core site.

...which is just redirecting to the ftp directories above

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:31 am

kylie wrote:try here for the additional plugins:

ftp://ftp.creamware.de/Software/Scope_family/nokeys_OXE

and get the basic software here:

ftp://ftp.creamware.de/Software/Scope_f ... cope4.5_PC

-greetings, markus-

Thanks a bunch, found most of it there.

What is the difference between the same files, except some include "NoKeys" in the name? Which should I install?

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:58 am

Casar wrote:What is the difference between the same files, except some include "NoKeys" in the name? Which should I install?

I think you should not be confused by the NoKey part of the name, since none of these files contains a key.
back in those days where "MyPage" existed you were able to download oxe files that were packed with the corresponding key for the card it was registered to, so you didn't have to import an allkeys file or put the string manually into the activation dialogue.
to distinguish the oxes downloadable for everybody on the ftp-server from those personalized files they were called "NoKeys" oxes.

-greetings, markus-

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:53 am

John Bowen at Zarg claims that one can normally not transfer the licenses of software. What kind of business conduct is that? Gives me second thoughts about supporting this platform with any more business.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:02 am

well, read any license agreement on any vsti you ever bought and be prepared to be suprised.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:18 am

the statement on the Zarg site is absolutely correct, as John Bowen cannot even guarantee he will have access to the code generating system at any arbitrary point in future.
In fact the original Creamware system was never intended to have 'transferable' licences at all.
They kind of had to construct their own 'backdoor' as the process was a 'one way only' design, when later license transfers were offered as a convenience to customers. The process is fairly time consuming.

As Piddi wrote, a 'non-transferable' license is completely regular business in software developement.

cheers, Tom

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:40 am

astroman wrote:the statement on the Zarg site is absolutely correct, as John Bowen cannot even guarantee he will have access to the code generating system at any arbitrary point in future.

but why should he have to, in this particular case?
the license is tied to the card that was transferred. if the keyfile contains the activation string, there is no further key processing necessary.
the way the licensing scheme is designed (locking a plugin to a specific card instead to a specific owner) inevitably leads to the conclusion that selling a card with the license string tied to it means the new owner of the card owns the license, and the previous owner doesn't. and I think a software author selling his or her plugins that way binds itself to that scheme. or am I something missing here?

-greetings, markus-

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:13 am

No matter whether it is possible or not, a license transfer is at the discretion of the owner of the software - by that I obviously mean the person who wrote it, not the person who bought it

There's a demo on request for Solaris so you can try it before you buy it. I don't really see the problem - what's the point of thinking about selling something before you've even bought it?

Having worked for software companies, I can say there are definitely a lot of people who want to buy something just to check it out and then sell it after they've had some fun with it (or sampled it to death). While this might be nice for the person doing it, it's a PITA for the developer - you have to support a whole new user with a whole new system, and also hope that the original user didn't 'keep a backup'.

With software it's the price you pay for multiple instances, free updates and fixes, etc etc. If you don't like it there's always hardware

BTW I've been personally affected by this - I bought a used card a while back with LOTS of keys, most of which I didn't need. The CW transfer fees and the procedure to do the transfers meant that it wasn't worth selling the keys. Well, I could have got pissed at that, but I got over it. The way I see it, CW would get more plugin sales.

It's in our interests for developers to survive so they can keep updating and release new products. What's the point of bleeding everything you can out of a company just because you bought something from them? It's a short term view.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:21 am

darkrezin wrote:There's a demo on request for Solaris so you can try it before you buy it. I don't really see the problem - what's the point of thinking about selling something before you've even bought it?

the card above (well, if the listing is the content of the keyfile) carries licenses for several zarg plugins. they are bound to the card, not to a person. the challenge-response method requires a hardware serial id, not a name. did you ever buy a second hand cw card and requested the keyfile for it? you get what is licensed to the card, since the old owner can't do anything with the bare license string. he (the previous owner) will of course never buy an upgrade for the plugin, while the new owner maybe will. john himself was generously enough to offer a crossgrade for my proTone to wc pro one, and so I would definitely ask him for the device kits, since he won't lose anything by sending it. because without valid keys they cannot be used anyway...

BTW I've been personally affected by this - I bought a used card a while back with LOTS of keys, most of which I didn't need. The CW transfer fees and the procedure to do the transfers meant that it wasn't worth selling the keys.

well, as astro said, the licensing scheme wasn't meant to transfer licenses (between cards), although they made a workaround. so that supports my theory even more that the owner of the card is the owner of the plugin licenses. the transfer fee is not a fee to re-license a plugin to another person, but to another card. and the fee is there because the process of transferring the keys involves erasing the identity of the giving card to ensure that the owner of that card can't use the license anymore. I can even pay a fee for transferring a license from me to me, if I own both cards

It's in our interests for developers to survive so they can keep updating and release new products. What's the point of bleeding everything you can out of a company just because you bought something from them? It's a short term view.

you think its wise to declare a license void just because somebody sells the "dongle" the license is bound to? the previous owner won't be able to buy an upgrade, since the card with the old license is necessary for that. the new owner won't buy an upgrade either, if he isn't entitled to use the licenses on his card.

the only reason for such behavious would be incredible greedyness, and reality shows that neither CW/SC nor any other developer actually is that greedy. well, at least from my point of view. I never bought a new card, but I have a big bunch of used ones, so they didn't earn my money with hardware. they definitely did with a considerable amount of plugin expansion. and I definitely wouldn't be in the boat if I had to pay the regular price for the cards. but still they make money with me. I can't see anything wrong here.

-greetings, markus-

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:39 am

I guess I was referring to transferring plugins without the card. You're correct - there does not seem to be much point in refusing a transfer with the card, although as I said, the license owner has the right to do whatever he wants.

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:42 am

I have worked within the IT industry with multimillion even billion dollar business (at AT&T and IBM) and so if you buy and sell a Cisco router, you can do that and still maintain the inherited license as a buyer, except customer unique Terms & Conditions. The OS goes with the router. This is a router with software, the only difference is in application use and design. I am no engineer but I know business and business principles to a great extent.

This is simply poor and self defeating conduct.

They will not shift more copies unless the market demands it, which seems questionalble since I understand that this platform is barely surviving. There is nothing wrong with the market so any issue has to be at the other end, since the quality is fine. I will simply refuse to buy anything at all unless I get what I bought. A card with software. Arguably the seller is at fault for not informing me about what I actually bought .

I own the card and not the seller so what was legit with the card, must still be legit, or we are talking purely speculative and highly questionable logic. If the family of the seller would inherit the card due to death, would all licenses die with him? Then you license the person and not the software. This is amateur business, no doubt about it. If I buy a computer with windows XP, does the license die with the sell? Not that I am aware of!

If they understood the basis for market theory they would change this conduct. IT is estranged in business manners but it is all changing since it is turning into a buyer driven market, rather than a supplier driven market and this is due to ubiquity and surplus of available services and products.

incurring a one time charge for the license is reasonable I think since it takes manpower to do it but it must be slight or else it just shows cannibalism.

They will survive better if the products survive in the second hand market. This is something Adobe understands and so still remains one of the most profitable software companies in the world despite the fact that they are also one of the most pirate ridden providers. Photoshop is one of the top five of the most pirated softwares. So how can they maintain increasing profits? By adopting to the real market.

I apologize, as always, for the rant, thanks

Robert

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:02 am

you can agree or disagree, but if you think this is a limited issue to Zarg music you should, as i said, go thru the licences of every other VST/VSTi you have got.

Someone has been kind enough to start a thread about this in KVR though, so to make the job easier for you here are 8 pages about audio software developers who follow the same rule/similar rules regarding transfer.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:09 am

i'm really confused by this thread. If you have the key files as stated in the opening thread why are you trying to transfer them? If you have the keys it doesn't matter whose name it's in it does it?

Download software, enetr key, that's it innit?

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:24 am

only plugin which might need a re-reg is the ones not available as oxes on creamwares FTP server, like "Zarg Master Class" which sounds interesting but i must admit i never heard of.

Unless you are buying this card just to sell the plugs included?

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:25 am

by the way i can also imagine you wont have much use of "ProdysseyNOAH"...

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:34 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:If you have the key files as stated in the opening thread why are you trying to transfer them? If you have the keys it doesn't matter whose name it's in it does it?

the point is that there isn't even a name in the key (or we're declaring the hw serial of the board its name

). I assume that several plugins of zarg are not downloadable at SC, so he would have to get it from john.
if I were him (that is: casar) I'd just contact john, tell him that you have the card with the hw serial xyz, attach the corresponding license strings as a proof that the plugins are registered to that card (I had to do so for my pro one crossgrade) and ask him for sending the installkits. I don't really doubt that it works.
again, if the keys do work, it's fine, but if not, it's the sellers fault and not john's. but if the plugins were transferred off the card before it was sold to casar it's surely trackable. on the other hand, I don't believe that this is the case.

-greetings, markus-

Casar · Post by **Casar** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:36 pm

kylie wrote:
Mr Arkadin wrote:If you have the key files as stated in the opening thread why are you trying to transfer them? If you have the keys it doesn't matter whose name it's in it does it?
the point is that there isn't even a name in the key (or we're declaring the hw serial of the board its name ). I assume that several plugins of zarg are not downloadable at SC, so he would have to get it from john.
if I were him (that is: casar) I'd just contact john, tell him that you have the card with the hw serial xyz, attach the corresponding license strings as a proof that the plugins are registered to that card (I had to do so for my pro one crossgrade) and ask him for sending the installkits. I don't really doubt that it works.
again, if the keys do work, it's fine, but if not, it's the sellers fault and not john's. but if the plugins were transferred off the card before it was sold to casar it's surely trackable. on the other hand, I don't believe that this is the case.

-greetings, markus-

You´re correct! I contacted Mr Bowen and at first he responded "not normally able to transfer software..." and asked who owned it first. Also he asked for the serial nr and then I haven´t heard anything back from him. I got edgy because the zarg stuff is what made me buy it in the first place. That card had an expensive pricetag for potentially not getting what you thought you bought.
Having lots of trouble with the card plugins at the moment though, I hope to sort it out.