No article about Soniccore in magazins

mediamalte · Post by **mediamalte** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:12 am

I'm reading al lot of Magazins like Producer, Sound & Recorduíng. Musik & Pc and so on...
Since years there wasn't one similar article or notice about creamware or Soniccore. Even the change from Creamware to Soniccore and the announcments for Scope 5.0 was not named. Does anyone know why?

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:18 am

Sorry to say but magazines tend to only write articles about active advertisers. You won't believe how expensive it is to advertise in magazines so it will probably take SC some time to get into that position.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:58 am

No offence but I think your speculation no.2 is a little ridiculous (sponsorship). It's certainly true though that lack of OSX support means that SC does not get taken seriously. Whether you like it or not, OSX is the preferred OS for musicians who make money out of music and buy software (of course this is not a 100% rule but I would definitely say it's a majority). This is because, while it's not impossible to get a working Windows system it's much easier on OSX. I can say this for a fact having used both systems extensively. I've seen lifelong Windows users - people who could spec and build a good audio workstation from scratch - switch to Mac and never look back... personally I still use only Windows machines in my own studio but those days are numbered (except for a Scope machine of course

) Also I'm not saying Apple is 100% reliable either... it's just a lot easier to deal with on the whole. It does have bad points (permissions problems, continuous updates to AU specs) and before Astroman steps in, I know that compared to the old days of Mac it's a much more bloated and resource-hungry system.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:02 am

In the USA people pay 5000 USD a month for a PR firm to get placements.

Or you send these guys demo units which they all want to keep.

Most small companies haven't got the resouirces to pull that off.

That's why magazines usually suck. Many will be biased too.

SOS Pubs, is the only one I tend to buy when I feel the need to be lied to.

I usually just ask my son if he did his homework yet.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:05 am

Even SOS is pretty crap these days... the 'reviews' are just bloated press releases - if you're lucky you get 1 or 2 paragraphs about what it's actually like to use. I don't waste my money on any music tech magazines any more - there is much more useful and up-to-date info available on the internet.

chriskorff · Post by **chriskorff** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:20 am

mediamalte wrote:Even the change from Creamware to Soniccore and the announcments for Scope 5.0 was not named. Does anyone know why?

Not true actually - I wrote the box-out in News in Sound On Sound magazine (early last year, can't remember which issue) that explained all of this, and clarified a lot of the speculation that was going on at these forums at the time, as well giving a bit of info on the ASX boards for the CME controllers.

There may be some news about v5.0 in the next issue, but we're always pressed for space, and SC haven't been very forthcoming with info. What would a news piece about that say, anyway?

"SonicCore have anounced an update to their DSP platform, though no details about features or release date have been given".

SonicCore, unfortunately, aren't very good at marketing. NO press releases were sent out, and it's only because I read these forums and because I called SC repeatedly that I got enough info out of them to write what made it into the magazine last year (and they're not giving anything more about v5 away over the phone than they are on their website, which isn't much). It's a shame really, because that's one of few things, possibly the main thing, that prevents them from being as well-known as they could be.

RE people's comments about music mags in general: They do apply to most magazines. Those who read SOS regularly, though, will have spotted several bad reviews in recent issues, some of them about products that come from our advertisers. We have pissed off (seriously...) several of our advertisers in the past by printing unfavourable reviews of their stuff in the name of accuracy, so I think, in the case of SOS (one of the few independently owned music tech mags), those accusations are a little unfounded.

Sorry for the ramble, and I hope this is the last time I ever have to bring my work life (SOS) into a place I normally go for fun (PlanetZ)!

Cheers,

Chris

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:24 am

Chris - some of the worst work I've seen in SOS admittedly comes from freelance writers who just don't seem to be very clued up at all. The standards of expertise shown in these types of reviews are very weak.

On the other hand they do have one of the best reviewers around, Gordon Reid.

Overall though I think music mags are a lot less relevant than they used to be - look at something like Craig Anderton's 'live review' concept and you'll see why.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:32 am

lets not make this an SOS war!

chriskorff · Post by **chriskorff** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:56 am

piddi wrote:lets not make this an SOS war!

Trust me, this is the last thing I want!

Suffice it to say (and please, for the sake of my sanity, let's not be magazine specific!) that either Sonic Core OR their distributors in their respective countries, would do well to send a press release out every now and again.

Much as I was glad to get a bit of info on the takeover into print, and with all due respect to the SC people, I shouldn't have had to work as hard as I did in getting those fairly basic details out of them.

it took a long, long time for me to get that info info out of them, and I doubt anyone that didn't take a personal interest (being a Scope user) in the matter would have bothered at all. I got wind of the takeover from these forums (basically by luck), and this is the same place I found out about v5.

Can magazine staff really be expected to get all of their news by trawling (let's be honest) niche forums devoted to niche products?

I can understand some of you guys' cynicism, but isn't it possible that the fact you haven't seen a Sonic Core advert in any of the major publications is a <i>symptom</i> of their non-existent marketing campaign, rather than the reason magazines don't publish info on them?

F*ck this, it's a Sunday! I'm starting to sound a little like I'm at work.

Roll on V5!

Chris

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:05 am

They are the only one I ever read anymore. I simply skip over the Yamaha, Roland reviews as they are bought and paid for. Besides, those guys haven't done anything great in years w/ synths. Since Roland was stupid enough to shine Mehdi T. on, I see at as their loss, our win.

SOS was responsible for me buying my MC3000, and many other items from Europe, as the Keyboard Magazine is just lame anymore. Jim Aikin, and Craig Anderton need to make a living though.

SOS has many good articles based on hands on use of plugs and hardware previously released. It is a very useful magazine for that.

They have done many reviews on gear that I never see in the states much. Their review on the Waldorf Q was awesome and considerate. Because of them finding flaws in the MIDI application, Waldorf was forced to release a fix.
That's the SOS that I remember and used to read religously. I paid 14 USD every month to read their reviews.That was years ago.

Many folks have outgrown the need for monthly rags unless they have an early released item where their review is crucial for early adopters.

If they do a review on Gigastudio 4 for the March '08 issue, I will start paying more attention again.

I just seem to stay away from any products now that aren't matured. Before, SOS did many reviews on hardware which was helpful. Sodtware seems to get all of the attention now, and we are all tired of paying top dollar for buggy crap.

I do wish SOS well, and will go see their e sub now just to confirm my suspicions.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just miss the heads up we use to get from SOS w/ hardware, which is becoming less and less important.

Internet forums are full of guys who make claims abouit products that are false.

PlanetZ has been the most fun, and educational place I ever frequented. I have made a nice living off of these " old DSP cards". I trust certain peoples opinions here like gold. As we have the hardware building expertise, IT knowledge, other developers input mostly unbiased, and just good old sick synth nuts. I am right at home.

Thanks For Your Spot On Info About Soniccore,Creamware Chris. This is something we have known for years, and I for one don't agree w/ their non existant strategy, but do agree w/ their products 100%.

Please enjoy your day off, and thanks for your contributions.

BTW, John Cooper has allowed us the last bastion of freedom here, it's O.K. to write the whole word FUCK, after all, we are not communists.......................................................................................................................
Don Barzini....The Godfather 1972.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:06 am

Sorry I got off topic... I'm definitely not really defending SC on this point - it's pretty impossible to. The marketing of this platform has always been poor.

Personally I think it's not the sort of thing you can really sell to the marketplace these days - most people just want the latest and greatest which will ideally do as much as possible without them needing to think. That means latest OS and sequencer compatibility, ability to run the latest plugins etc. Everyone also wants everything super-cheap with the ability to run lots of instances - they don't care if the quality is good. So they will happily take what the marketing bods at M-Audio (Avid Corp - check out their distribution portfolio...) etc want to sell them this month.

On the other hand, for people who want to work without always waiting for an upgrade, there are always tried and tested systems like Scope, Ensoniq Paris (!), Soundscape, Pro Tools Mix, Atari ST, tape...

There's not really much for the music mags to cover with these. As Chris said, what is there to say? "This system works just as well as it ever did, and it won't require you having to upgrade your sequencer, OS and hardware every 5 minutes. Nothing much else to report."

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:14 am

Stardust - the fact that M$ does not pay attention to audio users is one of the main reasons why Windows for audio is not looking very good right now. I just want a system that's easy to set up and doesn't glitch with stupid interruptions from the OS. That's a lot easier to achieve on Mac. I set up a friend's new Mac-based system and it was a LOT less stressful than doing similar jobs on Windows systems. It's quite amusing having Logic running, then plugging in a USB keyboard and everything works straight away - on Windows I'd have to quit Logic, wait for Windows to figure out the driver stuff, maybe have to reboot, and then run Logic again. Wheee! Meanwhile, M$ tries to copy the graphical aspects of OSX while learning absolutely nothing about what it is that makes this OS easier to use. Vista is a joke.

I guess pro applications like Logic and Final Cut, and the people who use them, simply matter more to Apple than M$. This stuff sells machines for Apple - M$ doesn't care less, it doesn't need good realtime performance for the vast majority of its customers. Regarding Final Cut - have you ever used it and compared it to something like Premiere on Windows? I've used both and Premiere is a joke in comparison. I can definitely see why Final Cut would get lots of coverage - it's caused quite a stir in video editing and is a serious competitor to Avid.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:25 am

Also I just want to make it clear that I'm very aware that Apple is a big faceless corp just like M$ and I don't buy into the whole i-Life hype. Couldn't care less and in fact I really hate the whole iPod thing which is more fashion than substance. Give me my vinyl in my front room any day... I'd prefer to read a book when I'm on the road rather than destroy my ears with an iPod. All I really care about is that their computing systems are a whole lot better than the alternatives right now.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:33 am

Sure, I guess they get more advertising money from Apple than they do from M$. But however corrupt you think music magazines are, they always have to reflect what their readership is thinking. If most people are using Macs (I can only speak from experience, but 99% of professional musicians and studios I come across use Macs) then they have to cover their angle. Regarding bias towards pro apps like Logic and Final Cut - these are still small in comparison to Pro Tools and Avid in their markets, regardless of what I think about them.

Post by **garyb** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:33 pm

magazine articles are ALWAYS written by the manufacturer and then rewritten by the magazine in exchange for advertising. the bigger the ad, the bigger the article.

buying stuff based on magazines alone equates to mind control and ignorance(which can be bliss...)...

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:54 pm

in that case creamware must have put shitloads of cash in Craigs pocket!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:01 pm

not wonder they went broke 2 times...

cheers, Tom

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:17 pm

I don't think Creamware has given lot of money around....what I know from the forum actually moderated by Craig Anderton is that he has a Scope board in his music machine and he has said several times to love it. The how and why he got it are unknown to me, though.

chriskorff · Post by **chriskorff** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:22 pm

garyb wrote:magazine articles are ALWAYS written by the manufacturer and then rewritten by the magazine in exchange for advertising. the bigger the ad, the bigger the article.

Are you speaking from experience? What magazines have you worked at, or have known to operate like that? Because that's certainly not what happens where I work.

I'm sure there are some magazines that do (and some that simply plagiarise...), but that's obviously at the expense of their credibility, and magazines with zero credibility tend not to last very long.

IMO

Cheers,

Chris

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:49 pm

Is Arbiter kind of pissed at you guys for that " honest " review of the CME VX series?

That's the kind of reviews that I thanked SOS for years back.

Turnkey probably sent threatening letters about that one.