PCI-to-PCIe adapter for 200€ ? REVIEW NOW AVAILABLE

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:55 am

a guy at the french forum has recently mentionned a cheap solution (compared to Magma ones) to "convert" for 200 euros our PCI boards into PCIe... In fact, you just have to plug your pci cards into an external box and then all the data flow is sent to a pcie slot... Here is the link :

http://www.euronetside.com/shop/index.p ... 9809&sl=EN

I am personnally deeply interested in this product as this would :
- allow to put computer and soniccore boards in diffrent places
- mean that we can buy a motherboard without pci slot
- give more room into the computer
- give a new life to our pci board
- and (why not ?) - if the new soncicore boards are to be compatible with the old ones - it will be possible to gather pci and pcie boards in the same computer !

By now, i am not saying it is a safe option at all ! This system must be tested and that's exaclty what i am going to do for both forums !!! I have contacted the french branch and they are ok for a test (100% neutral) ; thus i will receive this product so that i can push the limits... As i have almost all the SonicCore plugins and 21 dsp available, i will give a comprehensive feedback...

I suppose it will take 3/4 weeks before i can give a review of this product. So be patient ...

To be continued ...

Jonathan

PS : remember i have nothing to do with this company ! whatever is the result, this review will help many sonicCore users i think...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:05 am

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22516

Look forward to your results. Are you going to cut a hole in the back to fit your Scope cards?

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:09 am

http://www.planetz.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=181249

http://www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/vie ... php?t=7348

I'm very interested to your review, thanks

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:12 am

yes i will have to cut the box ; it seems taht this company has not focused its attention on the pro audio market which explains the small depth of the box. It it works great it does not bother me but may be they would be able to resize their boxes. That would mean a cheap solution for SonicCore but also UAD and PT users...

Be patient, the review is coming soon

Jonathan

Refrochia · Post by **Refrochia** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:09 am

This is definately going to be of interest to a lot of people - particularly as the pool of quality stable mobo's supporting up to three PCI will no doubt diminish (probably not as soon as soom doomsayers would have you beleive)

How would you power the boards? Or is this covered by the 5v compatibility?

Cheers

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:35 am

honestly - I much appreciate Jonathan's engagement to check this out, such things are a bit of fun and tech adventure, too

but I can't stand this bullshit about vanishing boards with PCI slots

if it would enter my mind I could order within 5 minutes a board that even has 6 ISA slots plus PCI plus I dunnowhat, and that will be by far old stock, but a brandnew item. period. forgeddaboutit. I'm betta now

Tom

Post by **hubird** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:37 am

thanks, I'm interested also

I hope the interface will transmit fast (reverbs, delays).

soul-synthesis · Post by **soul-synthesis** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:59 pm

looks exciting, keep us posted.

if this works, i'm buying one!

time to upgrade my single core amd computer!!

Kymeia · Post by **Kymeia** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 pm

Looks very promising - good way to reduce system heat too

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:14 am

Eventually, here is my comprehensive review !!!! :

1) First of all, i must admit this box has not met all my expectations ...

2) i had to customize this box in order to have anough room for my 21 dsp system made of 2 boards... Indeed the box is very short !

3) Good news : the box was immediatly recognized by windows XP Pro SP2 ; thus, my scope board could be installed in a traditionnel way...

4) I must mention one important issue : i could only install 1 board !!!!

Here is the key point... I am not saying that's definitly impossible but i could not manage to run 2 boards (error messages from windows, scope.sys, fatal error...). No matter what i did (pci slot change, reinstallation), the system worked fine with one baord that's it... Is it because of the SDTM cable ? I don't know...

5) I then focused my attention on the behaviour of this board alone... everything was fine when it comes to sound quality and stability, just sismilar to the "traditional" way. Nevertheless, a tiny loss of pci bandwidth must be stressed. A comparison between the traditional installation (board installed on my intel motherboard) and this "external" way seems obvious : i could not load as much masterveb pro with the pci-to-pcie box ! I got the "pci master overflow" sooner with this box.... This is a minor issue though (as this only occured with the masterveb pro). No problem at all with several instances of my DAS RMX160 reverb and Minimax for example. I tried many plugins and i got no pci master overflow.

Sum Up :

+ quite well made (at that price range)
+ good support
+ good performance and stability with one scope board
+ easy installation

- only one soniccore board could be installed properly
- the box needs to be customized (even for a scope project)
- pci bandwidth problem with more than 3 masterveb pro

Bilan : this remains a cheap option (200€) for those who plan to "externalize" one scope board... this board can focus its power on synth or mixing for example. And after all, although my attempts were unsuccessful, may be it is possible to cascade 2 or 3 boards... who knows ? This is just MY review with MY system (intel DP965LT mobo, Core2duo e6600, 2 Go RAM Super Talent, Raptor HD).

Hope it helps...

Jonathan

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:46 am

It could be interesting, also, only if a PCI-e interface for laptop will be available.
Too bad that only one card is allowed

Thanks for that review, very welldone

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:55 am

you are welcome ! I will contcat them to try to find out why this cannot be ok for several boards though... As for laptop solutions, i think they have products like this cheaper than the Magma stuff

but i won't be able to review them by now

....

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:56 am

well done Jonathan - you could only go as far as technology allows...

I remember a similiar effect when using a 2-slot risercard (that I just unplugged from another system).
With one card it worked, two made a big mess.

If you look at catalog pictures of risercards for serverboards, you will notice that they are supplied with a number of tiny 'fake cards' to be placed in the original slots of the mobo.
Those connectors bring several individual signals to the riser, most likely the IRQ line and such stuff - my guess, I never did read the specs.

if you run into trouble after 3 Masterverbs, this system is most likely of little use with even medium ASIO load, too.
it once again shows the difference between theoretical and real world specs

cheers, Tom

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:25 am

yes... I never have pci overflow and so forth when my boards are in my racked PC.... I am just a bit desapointed to be honest as i thought this 200€ investment could be worth it...

Using one sole board is just a waste... I am running 21 dsp and that's so cool (i will add another board for sure;-) ) ... i am still amazed by the power and all what you can get from these boards (and the good plugins available !)... Should i need more flexibility and i will just buy another computer boosted by some additional DSPs

....

Jo

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:29 pm

hi jo

3) Good news : the box was immediatly recognized by windows XP Pro SP2 ; thus, my scope board could be installed in a traditionnel way...

don't you need any extra driver ??? fromthe manufacturer ??? it seems a bit strange !
for the magma rack, you need to install the driver that allow you to add 2 PCI ports !

4) I must mention one important issue : i could only install 1 board !!!! Here is the key point... I am not saying that's definitly impossible but i could not manage to run 2 boards (error messages from windows, scope.sys, fatal error...). No matter what i did (pci slot change, reinstallation), the system worked fine with one baord that's it... Is it because of the SDTM cable ? I don't know...

this issue could be solved with a dedicated driver ???
did you try to slot any other PCI , card (not a scope) i mean a sound or usb or any other card, and is it recognized ?

cheers andthx a lot for the review ... very usefull before buying !
olive

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:36 pm

hi again jo

Question :

Do you have to power on the extansion box before to start the system (XP) or can you power it on after the launch of XP ??? and the of course power it off, and on again ... i hope you understand my question ... i mean is it "hot pluggable"
cheers
olive

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:11 am

sonolive wrote: Do you have to power on the extansion box before to start the system (XP) or can you power it on after the launch of XP ??? and the of course power it off, and on again ... i hope you understand my question ... i mean is it "hot pluggable"

imho, pci hotplug is a feature only available on server boards. most if not all desktop product user are obviously not expected to hot(un)plug pci resources. pci hotplugging imho definitely needs OS support (a driver) to recognize the (un)plugging. an hp server, for instance, has a special button next to those pci slots that are hotplug capable. you have to press it before unplugging (don't know about plugging in) to signalize that the slot will go offline. imho the driver that controls the slots will disable the device in the OS then.

concerning the driver:

afair magma cases only require drivers under certain circumstances, depending on the box itself, and the os, and the capability of the bios to handle multiple pci bridges. (I assumed you don't need any driver before I read your post, but then I checked back at magma.com). thanks for the hint

.

-greetings, markus-

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:27 am

hi kylie

imho, pci hotplug is a feature only available on server boards. most if not all desktop product user are obviously not expected to hot(un)plug pci resources. pci hotplugging imho definitely needs OS support (a driver) to recognize the (un)plugging. an hp server, for instance, has a special button next to those pci slots that are hotplug capable. you have to press it before unplugging (don't know about plugging in) to signalize that the slot will go offline. imho the driver that controls the slots will disable the device in the OS then.

that is what i have understood with my agma rack !!! (pcmcia to 2 PCI) even if sometimes ... and i don't really know why it works ...
i mean , for sur i have to power up the magma rack before launching XP ... that is something obliged !
but, it is SOMETIMES possible to unplug the rack, and replug it andit works !!!
this seems strange but in fact it works !
b carefull, i said UNPLUG ( i mean unplug the pcmcia ... ) and not power the rack off !!! if i power the rack off, i will never be able to repower it on !!!

about the driver for magma : i have never tried without ... son i don't know if it xorks ... but it should work under MAC OSX as far as i know (never tried tho)

under xp, the DEC driver seems to be obliged !!! that is it that shows you the two more pci slots (i'll try to make a screen capture of the hardware list under xp) but if you say it works without !!! kool

smething else, for magma rack ... the cipset of he PCMCIA is very very important ... they say it is better with TI and i have experimeted that it is right !!!
installation is much more easy wth TI tha any others ... i once managed ti install it on a ENE but when i tried on another lapto with ENE it failed ...

"the mysteries of sciece ..."

cheers
olive

edited : sorry , too much typing errors !!!

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am

sonolive wrote: that is what i have understood with my agma rack !!! (pcmcia to 2 PCI) even if sometimes ... and i don't really know why it works ...
i mean , for sur i have to power up the magma rack before launching XP ... that is something obliged !
but, it is SOMETIMES possible to unplug the rack, and replug it andit works !!!

cardbus is a different thing, I think. cb is designed for hot(un)plug, so I'm not overly surprised

but since the procedure does not work constantly, your better off using it the way you described.

about the driver for magma : i have never tried without ... son i don't know if it xorks ... but it should work under MAC OSX as far as i know (never tried tho)

ah yes, you have a cardbus interface under windows. thats one of the cases a driver is required

on MacOS 9.x and X they say it's not necessary (but maybe the driver is just built in already).

smething else, for magma rack ... the cipset of he PCMCIA is very very important ... they say it is better with TI and i have experimeted that it is right !!!

I heard the same thing when it comes to firewire

TI is said to have the most stable and recommended chips here, too, so that makes sense to me.

-greetings, markus-

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:24 am

so ...
don't you find a bit strange the problem of jonathan .... its box only sees one scope card ???
cheers
olive