Upgrading these forums...?

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:10 am

The planetz forums are based on phpBB 1.4, which is beginning to look quite extremely dated and is suffering some growing pains (like the very slow search, etc). phpBB 2.x is much more feature rich - see here: http://www.phpbb.com

I did a lot of custom modifications to the phpBB code to implement the pulsar-specific planetz community features like file-uploading, device ratings and categorization, etc.

Unforutnately, this locked me into the phpBB 1.4 codebase - it would be a huge job to update to phpBB 2.x and reapply all these modifications. They changed most of the internal code in the 2.x version of phpBB. And I'm just too busy to redo all of the modifications in a new set of forum code.

So, here's the big question:

I wonder how important to you those new features are- categorization, filtering, etc? Does anyone actually use the "filtering" mechanisms at the top of the files forums (presets/projects/patches/devices/music)? Do people really care about the "Details" column when looking at those forums?

If we decide we don't really care about that stuff, then I could just bail on all of it, and migrate us up to phpBB 2.x with a 3rd-party file-attachments modification. Something like this http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=74505

The hardest part will be migrating our database to 2.x. I guess I could do something like convert the existing details categorization tags into text that gets appended to the topic post. But then in 2.x, there'd be no way (other than search) to filter using those.

Once in 2.x, a post to the presets/projects/patches/devices/music forums would look just like posting to any of the other text forums (like announcements), and there'd be a simpler file-attachment mechanism than we have now.

The benefit of being on a minimally-modified 2.x is that as *they* improve the forum code, we can benefit from it.

If you guys think it's a good idea, I could install a mockup of a 2.x forums for testing purposes.

Lemme know what you think.
-John

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:34 am

I wouldnt mind loss of features. Its better to upgrade to something more standard!

I'll help where I can, I know some php & mysql.

[ This Message was edited by: Harmany on 2006-08-24 11:35 ]

Post by **hubird** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:48 am

On 2006-08-24 11:34, Harmany wrote:
Its better to upgrade to something more standard!

agree, so you have my vote John

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:17 am

I think it would be good to upgrade especially as there are security issues with older versions (spam bots etc).

Maybe things like file uploading etc have been added as standard in newer versions?

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:23 am

If the search function works well some filtering can be lost, although if you go, say, to the modular or device section and click on "poster" you'll understand why I do like these features...

, but a good search can do the same thing and even better.

Anyway I'd like to keep the same colour and basical layout scheme, it's the less eye tiring forum I've ever seen.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:31 am

The searching has been a problem with the speed.

It would be nice to have RSS feeds. I can imagine downloading the latest modules with RSS. That would be nice!

[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2006-08-24 12:40 ]

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:34 am

On 2006-08-24 12:17, darkrezin wrote:
I think it would be good to upgrade especially as there are security issues with older versions (spam bots etc).

Maybe things like file uploading etc have been added as standard in newer versions?

Not sure security is any better with newer versions. Version 2.0.10 phpBB did not stop spam bots installing on the SDK Documentation Group Website (about 83% of members are spam bots).

On 2006-08-24 12:23, alfonso wrote:
If the search function works well some filtering can be lost, although if you go, say, to the modular or device section and click on "poster" you'll understand why I do like these features... , but a good search can do the same thing and even better.

Anyway I'd like to keep the same colour and basical layout scheme, it's the less eye tiring forum I've ever seen.

Having a look at the phpB website, I think the colour and look of the current PlanetZ Forums could be imitated.

Better search would be welcomed as the present limit is I think about 200 records and older topic information cannot be viewed at the moment, when doing some searches.

[ This Message was edited by: Aries on 2006-08-24 13:14 ]

Post by **hubird** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:52 am

On 2006-08-24 12:23, alfonso wrote:
Anyway I'd like to keep the same colour and basical layout scheme, it's the less eye tiring forum I've ever seen.

yeah, i forgot about that, hope you can keep the forum appearence!

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:13 pm

The search function is indeed a bit slow. You may want to check with ReD_MuZe (or Valis), as I discussed this with him previously he wouldn't mind to share a couple modules he's using on the Adern forums, for example the auto-login, which offers most efficient reading when combined with a 'recent topics' link. And also a recent phpbb, as on the Adern forum, allows attachments to specified forums AFAIK...
What I really like about Z is indeed the theme, but that should be easy to redo on a next phpbb version.
Not sure on how much work it'd take, and on how 'complete' the existing forums can be migrated though...

Courage, John

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:18 pm

John, how long would the migration process take and what would the the approximate down time of PlanetZ?.

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:01 pm

hey john!

its actualy pretty simple to upgrade the forums.

basicaly it means just upgrading the database and unstalling a new version...

i have alot of experience in that (phpbb or nuke and in general php and mysql)

and ill be more than happy to help!

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:30 pm

It's not so simple for planetz, cuz I've heavily modified the database schema, and the code to support all our planetz specific features.

I've looked a little bit at the upgrade code in phpBB 2.0.21, and it looks fairly straightforward, but I'll have to tweak it to deal with my modifications. Also I'll need to figure out how best to migrate the custom information in our database that isn't supported in the newer phpBB.

So far, no one has said they use any of the filtering/categorization stuff really. So I'm thinking it makes sense to try to upgrade.

Don't worry about the forum theme (colors/etc) - that should be fairly trivial to preserve.

As for how long it would take, i'd do all my work and testing in a private copy of planetz, and only after i get it all working would I shut down planetz to do the upgrade. Downtime would probably just be a half day. But I'm not sure how long it'd take me to get it working in the private copy!

Adern.com looks like phpBB 2.0 with that attachment MOD (for file attachments) that I mentioned at the top. How's that working for you guys at Adern?

And thanks for the offer Red! I'll contact you by email when I need your help

Cheers,
-John

[ This Message was edited by: John Cooper on 2006-08-24 14:39 ]

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:53 pm

i agree about doing it on a backup version.

i think we could maybe make a list of features needed for planetz, and then we can build modules to handle that, or find them on the net.

once we have the software up and running, and know how to edit the sql it should be quite simple to do the migration.

the attachment mod is OK.
my favorite module is "reacent posts" its realy simple and makes it easy to follow everything thats going on in the forum.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:07 pm

J.Cooper,
I hope I didn't start anything by whining about custom names and such. This forum is so important to most of us. A place to make friends, and do business, and in my case embarrass yourself by asking stupid questions. But I have learned so much here, and would simply wither away if there was no PlanetZ. GaryB would end up hating me 4 calling him all the time. I will not care one way or the other about the custom thing, but it does look so cool the see the logo " Moderator", and everyone else is Guru or Neophyte or something nobler. To show my appreciation, I am donating right now in the announcement thread.

Thanks Again For Such A Nice Home,

_________________
Jimmy V.

A Meagher 30 USD, but I pledge to do more by Christmas.

[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-08-24 16:14 ]

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:11 pm

Thanks for the support Jimmy.
Your guys' ideas are always welcome!

I've wanted to upgrade the forums for years, but have been crippled by lack of time, and the enormity of the task.

However, in realizing that it's probably ok to dump some of my customizations, I feel like it wouldn't be such a huge job afterall... When I get the time, I'm gonna give it a go

More news as it happens...

Cheers,
-John

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:36 pm

While i's not too hard to customize the theme through phpbb's admin interface, there will be a lot of things missed (like the buttons). I've done 10+ phpbb forum 'skins' for various sites over the last 5 years or so and would be more than happy to help preserve the color scheme yet update the look to phpbb 2.0 if you're interested.

http://www.kief.net/forums/ is one of my personal sites, just as an example.

Incidentally the feature i miss most atm is being able to 'preview' before hitting submit.

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:40 pm

Thanks for the offer Valis!

I never really liked my post/reply/new-topic buttons anyway

Yeah, preview-for-submit is a great feature.

Cheers,
-John

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:55 pm

As I mentioned some other time, the forum is fine as it is. No forum I know is as fast and uncluttered as PlanetZ. Why change it if it works perfectly? I never need to preview since I know I can edit my post. I think a preview is actually redundant.

[ This Message was edited by: BingoTheClowno on 2006-08-24 17:59 ]

ReD_MuZe · Post by **ReD_MuZe** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:04 pm

yes i agree with valis about the preview. its a chance to check if the hex drawings worked fine, and to see if there is rephrasing to do...

in the new version you can also the the posts prior to yours when posting. so you can answer to each of the points without having to switch pages.

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:11 pm

Hey Bingo,

I appreciate the kind words.

PlanetZ is indeed a fast forums server, and I don't think that'll change with the upgrade. One thing you may not have tried here lately is search- it has become almost unbearably slow, and in fact doesn't even work sometimes (depending on server memory load). Search was just poorly implemented in phpBB 1.x, much improved afaik in 2.x.

Preview aside, there are other nice things about 2.x which motivate an upgrade. One of which is that there's a team of motivated people working on it to fix bugs, security, etc- while for our forum, there's only me.

There are a few outstanding bugs that I've never had time or been able to fix.

Cheers,
-John