new here, havin trouble with the a16 (green/blue)

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:32 am

hi all,
after an odysse of googling i landed here ...
i really hope someone can help me with my problem, i`m really stuck.
ok, here we go:
specs:
amd athlon 3000ghz, rme hammerfall digi96/52, a16 (green/blue, 16bit only, _not_ the ultra)

i recently moved with my studio.
now, that i build it up again, i realized, the the powersupply was broken.
i heavily searched for the technical data of it, with no luck, exept, that someone finally posted them on kvr:

Adapter AC/DC
Type SA. 519
In 220V ~ 50 Hz
Out 19V = / 2 A

is that correct? because on my a16 (where you plug in the powersupply) it says 18volts?

however, now my problem:
since i plugged the new powesupply the a16 works, exept:
- i cannot get it to sync on 44.1khz
- it gets cooking hot

the strange thing is, that the driversettings of the hammerfall allways show somwething different.
sometimes the a16 toggles between 48 and 44,1, but the driver analyzes sync lock on both adat inputs, which is the desired state. also the driver says, that the input reference is 44,1khz.
and sometimes i won`t get any sync lock on the driver analysation ...
all in common ther is, that, if i set the a16 to "master" (desired method), it jumps to 48khz, and when pressing 44.1khz it starts to toggle again ...
could it be, that the heat of the a16 increased because of that new powersupply, even though the specs are correct?
and could it be, that, because of this heat-increasement, the sync gets lost??
please, anyone help me, i need to work, but i can`t, and i don`t have any clou anymore ...
thanks so much in advance ...

_________________
reg, the brok

[ This Message was edited by: brok landers on 2006-07-23 09:33 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:55 pm

did you measure the output of your replacement PSU or did you quote the figures printed on it ?
The difficulty with such supplies (which usually contain a transformer, a rectifier network and some caps) is that the actual load drops the voltage significantly.
2 ampere is a pretty high value, it's required that the new PSU can supply this current, otherwise it's voltage will drop too low and then the regulators in the A16 run amok (probably).
At least that's my guess when you describe it as insanely hot.

I have the same A16 and I run it without fan - it IS fairly hot, but not alarmingly (the latter would typically be accompagnied by a certain smell...)

My (original) PSU shows 26 Volt without load, when the box draws current that will be reduced to 18 Volt.
Inside the A16 this will be stabilized by regulators to +15/-15V (for opamps) and they probably generate 5V/12V for digital parts (but I didn't measure it).

The unit has a very unfortunate design as the regulators (which produce the heat) are located UNDER the main circuit.
Without the fan (running) the best way to mount it is upside down in the top position of a rack - or put it on a (solid) metalplate to dispose of some heat. Mine is just lying on the table.

Anyway, the regulators might produce a tremendous amount of noise when running beyond specs, aside from the fact that they are not designed for upward regulating afaik.
Digital sync will most likely suffer from any of these conditions.

cheers, Tom
and welcome btw

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-07-23 13:58 ]

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:45 pm

On 2006-07-23 13:55, astroman wrote:
did you measure the output of your replacement PSU or did you quote the figures printed on it ?

like i said, i asked for the specs of the a16 on kvr, and someone posted them, so i quoted
that and pasted it here ... thats why i asked if these specs are right ...

The difficulty with such supplies (which usually contain a transformer, a rectifier network and some caps) is that the actual load drops the voltage significantly.
2 ampere is a pretty high value, it's required that the new PSU can supply this current, otherwise it's voltage will drop too low and then the regulators in the A16 run amok (probably).
At least that's my guess when you describe it as insanely hot.

I have the same A16 and I run it without fan - it IS fairly hot, but not alarmingly (the latter would typically be accompagnied by a certain smell...)

My (original) PSU shows 26 Volt without load, when the box draws current that will be reduced to 18 Volt.
Inside the A16 this will be stabilized by regulators to +15/-15V (for opamps) and they probably generate 5V/12V for digital parts (but I didn't measure it).

The unit has a very unfortunate design as the regulators (which produce the heat) are located UNDER the main circuit.
Without the fan (running) the best way to mount it is upside down in the top position of a rack - or put it on a (solid) metalplate to dispose of some heat. Mine is just lying on the table.

Anyway, the regulators might produce a tremendous amount of noise when running beyond specs, aside from the fact that they are not designed for upward regulating afaik.
Digital sync will most likely suffer from any of these conditions.

cheers, Tom
and welcome btw

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-07-23 13:58 ]

ok tom, my technical knowledge is somewhat bad, i must admit that also my english deeply suffers when it comes to such hardcore technical terms ... i do not really understand what you`re saying ...
lets take it from here:
i can now say that i strongly assume that, caused by the new powersupply, the a16 gets very hot very soon.
when i turn off the a16 and wait an hour or so, then turn it on, the sync is perfect and the inputs work as desired.
as the unit gets very warm, not to say even hot (i cannot even really touch it then), it suddenly stops the audio stream, instead of the correct audiostream i ge a hum on every channel ...
to summ it up, i think that the heat kills the sync and the audiostream gets corrupted ...
so, is there any chance that you tell me what i have to do?
can i modify the powesupply in a way that i get the a16 to work propperly?
moreover, do i slowly kill the a16 when trying around with that powersupply?
i can modify the volts of the supply up to 24 volts, and down to 14volts ...
would it work with a higher or a lower setting than 18 volts?
sorry for bothering so much

, but this really kills me ...
btw, i`m german, so if you are maybe too, that would make things easier for me ...

thanks in advance,

_________________
reg, the brok

[ This Message was edited by: brok landers on 2006-07-23 16:52 ]

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:55 pm

tom, ich seh grad, du scheinst aus deutschland zu sein ....
is das posten auf deutsch hier erlaubt?
reg, the brok

[ This Message was edited by: brok landers on 2006-07-23 16:56 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:27 pm

für solche Fälle gibt es 'private messages' (oben auf der Seite unter New Topic)

es ist aber nicht so kompliziert...
Das Ersatnetzteil liefert entweder zu viel oder zu wenig Spannung. In beiden Fällen werden dann die Regler im A16 zu heiss.
Wie sieht das Ersatznetzteil aus, ist es ein Schaltnetzteil ?

The voltage of the replacement PSU is either to high or too low. In both cases the regulators inside the A16 overheat.
How does the replcement PSU look ? Is it a switching PSU ?

cheers, Tom

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:53 am

On 2006-07-23 20:27, astroman wrote:
für solche Fälle gibt es 'private messages' (oben auf der Seite unter New Topic)
es ist aber nicht so kompliziert...
Das Ersatnetzteil liefert entweder zu viel oder zu wenig Spannung. In beiden Fällen werden dann die Regler im A16 zu heiss.
Wie sieht das Ersatznetzteil aus, ist es ein Schaltnetzteil ?

The voltage of the replacement PSU is either to high or too low. In both cases the regulators inside the A16 overheat.
How does the replcement PSU look ? Is it a switching PSU ?

cheers, Tom

yes, i can switch between 14 and 24 volts.
i set it to 18 volts, as i read that right above the powesupply-jack on the a16 ...
check your pm ...

_________________
reg, the brok

[ This Message was edited by: brok landers on 2006-07-24 03:54 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:32 pm

funny coincidence, as this afternoon I stumbled over a 19V 3.4 Ampere switching PSU in the 'trash box' of a local PC dealer.
Obviously a TFT supply and supposed to be dead, so I got it for free.

my suspect turned out true as it suffered from just a damaged cable and a burned fuse

fixed it, plugged it into my A16 and voilà - same error as Brok. The A16 worked as 48k master, but didn't sync to 44k from the Pulsar (it's regular setting).
put back the original PSU and everything was ok again.

So those 18-20V notebook/TFT switching PSUs don't work with the old (non-ultra) A16, in case someone needs a replacement.

cheers, Tom

Post by **hubird** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:56 pm

good shot Astro