Scope Plus I/O questions

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:28 pm

Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum and Scope platform.

Recently I purchased a Scope Project card with "Plus I/O". I did not know that the balanced outs were XLR connections... I thought it was TRS... no one at the shop told me about it until I got back home and opened the package...

Anyway, I was just wondering that are they line level output or mic level output?? Do I need to connect the XLR outputs to a preamp or something if I want to record the XLR outputs from the card into another DAW (TRS input based)? Can I connect the analoge XLR output to TRS input directly via a "XLR to TRS" cable?

Anyway replies would be really appreciated.

Thank you all in advance.

Melissa

Post by **garyb** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:45 pm

they are line level. trs=xlr
pin 2-tip/pin 3-ring/pin 1-sleeve

there are standard adaptors. well, relatively so... the standard is defacto. there are a few pieces of rogue gear that is wired pin 3 hot or ring hot(instead of pin 2 or tip), but they are the exception not the rule. check manuals or diagrams on the gear if there are any questions. for the most part, switching pin 2 for 3 or vice-versa will only invert phase....

the standard adaptor is fine. there are phase inverting adaptors that can be made or purchased if needed.

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:51 am

thanks for the reply garyb,

I am still bit confused, does it mean that if I go and get 2 x "XLR to TRS cables" from a store, I would end up with a phase inverting problem when I am connectting the 2 x analoge XLR outputs to 2 x analoge 1/4" TRS inputs on a separate machine. (NOT AES/EBU to digital connections)

or I have to ask for special adaptors with phase inverting features?

The scope user manual does not have anything information or diagrams about this...

[ This Message was edited by: Cocytus on 2006-04-04 02:55 ]

Nepal Munk · Post by **Nepal Munk** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:43 am

I have the problems with the I/O PLUS outputs as well. I bought the cables 2xXLR -> 2xchinch together with AES/EBU male -> standard stereo jack as an alternative for AES/EBU output, connected them to the usual stereo amplifier and still there was no sound. I tried to connect them to the computer loudspeakers then, but the problem remained. The routing window mixer channels show the normal stereo audio signal and mixers outputs are connected to wave. My friend is the cable expert, he checked all the cables and the I/O PLUS extension, he told everything was OK here. I suppose the problem lies somewhere in the mixer settings or its outputs connections.

Any help would be very appreciated.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:52 am

no, not likely. pin2 hot and tip hot are "standard". it doesn't even matter if phase is inverted as long as all the channels of i/o are inverted. if you have a problem, you can easily fix the problem from my description, but a problem is unlikely. this is basic engineer stuff.....

the scope card is wired normally. i don't know about what you're connecting to, but it's likely to be the same. i just wanted you to be aware that there's no law involved.

really, don't worry. just get the adaptors. you can get hosa or better. oh, and learn to solder...

cables
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/STX-100F.html

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/STX-100M.html

or adaptors
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/GXJ-235.html

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/GXJ-183.html

or these are a great choice
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/gxp-143.html

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/GXP-246.html

nice cable
http://www.monstercable.com/pro_audio/p ... erconnects

or really great cable
http://www.zaolla.com/zaolla_product_zstx.html

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-04-04 03:00 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:56 am

On 2006-04-04 02:43, Nepal Munk wrote:
I have the problems with the I/O PLUS outputs as well. I bought the cables 2xXLR -> 2xchinch together with AES/EBU male -> standard stereo jack as an alternative for AES/EBU output, connected them to the usual stereo amplifier and still there was no sound. I tried to connect them to the computer loudspeakers then, but the problem remained. The routing window mixer channels show the normal stereo audio signal and mixers outputs are connected to wave. My friend is the cable expert, he checked all the cables and the I/O PLUS extension, he told everything was OK here. I suppose the problem lies somewhere in the mixer settings or its outputs connections.

Any help would be very appreciated.

i'm not 100% sure what you're trying to do, but the aes/ebu connection is digital stereo, not analog.....you can't just connect it to a stereo or anything else unless it's a digital aes/ebu connection on both ends. use the analog i/o to connect to monitors. in the routing window, the analog output is called analog dest.

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:00 am

thanks garyb,
if I get those Hosa cables or adaptors that you mentioned would I have a phase inverting problem?

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:02 am

Are those Hosa cables "phase inverting" cables? if they were standard, does it mean that I dont have to invert anything between the connections?

If the analoge XLR outputs of my Scope are Not inverted (normally wired too), and the analoge TRS inputs on the other machine are Not inverted (normally wired as well). Do I have to buy phase inverting cables or adaptors?

I think I will stay away from soldering, I will either burn myself or my clothe

[ This Message was edited by: Cocytus on 2006-04-04 03:11 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:15 am

cables aren't the cause. it's the other gear you connect to. once again, there's no law about how to order the three pins, but 99% of the manufacturers do it the same way anyway. it's mostly older gear that might be affected, but there was a time that the americans did it one way, and brits the other.

phase inversion is no problem usually, only if an inverted signal is combined with a non inverted signal. it's something to be aware of with balanced gear.

where this really might be a problem is when a non-balanced 1/4" connection is connected to a pin3 hot balanced xlr connection. if cold and ground are connected together and one assumed that pin2 was hot, then ground and hot could be connected, killing the sound. this is NOT a problem on the scope end. the stock adaptors will work fine.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:16 am

if both are normal, connect away!

the cables i posted are standard pin2 hot(pin3 hot are available, though!)

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-04-04 03:17 ]

Nepal Munk · Post by **Nepal Munk** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:24 am

I used this cable for both XLR analog outputs
and tried to connect both 2 RCA to the amplifier:

http://highlite.omc.net/index.php/highl ... r_m_3_p__1

AS far as I understood the ouputs for monitors at the SCOPE whip are left/right IN and the inputs for the instruments left/right OUT. Please correct me if this is wrong.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:27 am

very wrong.

the inputs are marked IN
the outputs are marked OUT

in the routing window, the outputs are analog dest and the inputs are analog source.

the "standard" with xlr is male=out and female=in. makes sense

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-04-04 03:29 ]

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:29 am

I am connecting the Scope to a Samson TRS Patchbay with fully balanced connectors. Then goes out to 2 of MOTU 2408 MK3's analoge TRS inputs.

Would this be a problem? -
========================================

Scope Plus I/O analog XLR outputs to -

lets say Hosa XLR to TRS (balanced cables) -

then goes into a TRS patchbay with balanced connector, out to -

MOTU 2408 MK3 via balanced TRS cables

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:32 am

no, why wouldn't it work?

Cocytus · Post by **Cocytus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:34 am

Thats great news,

Thank you so much garyb!

Post by **garyb** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:37 am

Nepal Munk · Post by **Nepal Munk** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:13 am

On 2006-04-04 03:27, garyb wrote:
very wrong.
the inputs are marked IN
the outputs are marked OUT

in the routing window, the outputs are analog dest and the inputs are analog source.

the "standard" with xlr is male=out and female=in. makes sense

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-04-04 03:29 ]

I tried to connect both ways, but still no sound. I'll try to re-install Scope Fusion Platform, maybe the problem lies there.

Nepal Munk · Post by **Nepal Munk** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:19 am

Re-installed and finally got the sound out of this card

Very strange. Anyway, thanks for the answers, garyb.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:42 am

not strange at all - when this card is powered up it is completely empty.
Not a single signal path exists, no input, no output.

The acual 'structure' of the card is generated by the SFP software which loads the DSPs and generates the routing.
This software performs out of the Windows environment (like a software loader/remote controller) and if it is messed for some reason so will be the setup of the card

cheers, Tom