midi stucking notes

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:22 am

i have never, NEVER!!! made it to be able to play synths and record them to nuendo midi without stucking notes.
no mater standard pc, filters etc...
six string stucks more than other synths. id does not stuck when it has polyphony set to 1, but if i raise polyphony to 2 and up midi notes stuck.
midi stucked notes can be also seen as continious lines in a recording midi channel in nuendo.
vst synths like fm7 or smple tank, do not stuck.
only scopes synths stuck.
no matter the routing... from midi directly or from sequencer out.
so, what is the matter?
is it my clavinova keybord that i use?
but vst's are ok.
creamwares synths are very slow according to midi singals i suppose.
please help.
i need my scopes synths more than any other, and this stucking problem that happens once in a while makes me not using them as much i want,..and payed for.
h e l p

System Information report written at: 02/16/06 15:26:47
System Name: ARC
[IRQs]

Resource Device Status
IRQ 5 RADEON X800 PRO/GTO OK
IRQ 3 Intel(R) 82801EB USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 24DD OK
IRQ 9 Silicon Image SiI 3112 SATARaid Controller OK
IRQ 11 Creamware Scope OK
IRQ 11 Creamware Pulsar2 OK
IRQ 14 Primary IDE Channel OK
IRQ 15 Secondary IDE Channel OK
IRQ 10 Intel(R) 82801ER SATA RAID Controller OK
IRQ 0 System timer OK
IRQ 1 PC/AT Enhanced PS/2 Keyboard (101/102-Key) OK
IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK
IRQ 6 Standard floppy disk controller OK
IRQ 8 System CMOS/real time clock OK
IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
IRQ 12 Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse (IntelliPoint) OK

_________________
ELVIS LIVES

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2006-02-16 05:27 ]

Lima · Post by **Lima** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:36 am

Hi Arcadios, I've got similar throubles, but they don't always happens. For example in my last session no one note was lost in about 4 hours of continuously playing. They happens only "sometimes". I think that maybe my windows needs some reset. I would reinstall everything avoiding the ACPI feature, because I've got several IRQ conflicts also.
I will reinstall everything without install the obsidian devices (I've read they give a kind of throubles) and then I hope to solve all my problems.

I've noticed that I loose notes expecially when the HD is working. Have you noticed the same?

I've got a first generation and a second generation boards, initially I've supposed a sort of "incompatibility" between theese cards wich causes instability of the system, but reading here on the Z, I've seen that there's people with the same setup wich not complain, so maybe the solution is elsewhere.

This is my actual situation and experience, and I hope it helps you.

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:27 pm

Hi Arcadios,

From my experience, six string stuck notes "depend" on the scope load (others synth running simultaneously, synths polyphony, reverbs, etc...)

Before to incrimitate your installation, I would do a test with Six string alone, then with minimax, then minimax with 6 voices, then with a sampler (or a large reverb).

Cheers

Michel

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:05 pm

Why don't you just record the MIDI *before* sending it to the Scope synth?

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:16 pm

If you're running Nuendo on a 1 bar loop or small loop, that could be the problem, as Cubase regularly drops the odd note when it's running on a small loop. We don't use Nuendo, but I'd imagine it being a possibility that it would behave in a similar flakey fashion when looping. That said you sound certain it's a scope issue, so I'm probably way off target

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:49 am

what do you mean by saying "one bar loop"?

what i usually do is to record midi before sending to instrument.

? >? ????/?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:41 pm

You've got a midi problem. So far on the subject of midi, all we know is that you use Scope, Nuendo & a clavinova keyboard. You haven't told us anything about your midi connections, interfaces or setup in general, so it's quite hard to help without more information.

Essentially if your system functions 'ok' otherwise, then it's doubtful your IRQ setings will make a difference.

To be blunt, the Scope midi does work, but I've personally experienced problems with it which made us buy an edirol UM-880 & We've not looked back since (may well buy another one actually).

We still use the Scope midi & it mostly works fine, but somehow we always seem to have problems sending 24ppqn clock signals... total bugger.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:57 pm

i connect scopes midi source to seq midi dest, and seq midi source to scopes synths.
even with filters sixstring stucks.
vst's do not make stucking notes. only scopes synths stuck.
sometimes not, but sometimes they do and it is very s.... situation.
i am not sutisfied from midi performance in scopes synths.
do you believe that i need a recommended keyboard?
it is not stable. please help.
it seems to be just for playing with scopes synths and raysed polyphony.
extremely

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:35 pm

try a different sequencer, it's not the Scope synths at fault

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:22 pm

Just get an Edirol UM880 or some similar dedicated MIDI interface. MIDI thru software is always going to be glitchy at best.

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:03 am

Hello Arcadios,
the stability problem you describe is something "regular" with the scope "seq" midi port. It has very bad timing. You should get a midi interface with "stamp" ability like steinberg midi-x (?) and connect a physical output to pulsar midi input. You will get very good midi timing but not as tight as vst. That's regular with every sequencer that drives external synths. By the way in scope we have the ability when we need exact timing that our synths work in XTC mode. By the way that is the only system that can drive "quality" synths with sample accuracy. You can try a test with some 32th-64th notes. You will hear all the irregularities. But in XTC mode you will listen to a "beautiful" stable sound. So for critical parts like drums, bass you should use something with exact timing like vst, or XTC, or sequenced driven parts. For other sounds there isn't any problem. (Think that people with a lot of external hardware suffer from that problem)

(by the way are you from Greece?)

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:32 pm

yes, greece. athens.

i opened my clavinova and put some sprey for electric contacts in inside plugs and cables from inside midi plug.
i think that this made midi sends more fast( a little), i am not sure yet for midi stucking notes improvement, but i have managed to play a little more time with six-string without stucks. i hope that it will last more than the time the sprey gets dry on contacts.
is it realy necessaery to use a midi interface? how do i use one?
what is the most stable way to record scope synths?

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:25 pm

thanks all guys!!
i think i have found the most possible stable situation here.
nuendo must never have midi input activity together with midi output activity.
this means that scopes midi source has to give midi signal to midi seq dest.
the scopes synths must be heard from the signal given directly from scopes midi source and not seq midi source.
seq midi source must be used only for playback midi notes and not for giving midi singal at the time of playing and recording.
i suppose that nuendo cannot make it well with midi in/out together(red and green lines showing singal at the same time).
so my configuration is as follows:

scope midi source=> midi filter=> "merger2"=> seq midi dest.

seq midi source=> "merger2"=> synths.

it is necessary to disconnect midi outpout activity from nuendo midi channel when having midi input activity.

i wish this will make things ok, or i will throw my pc from window

fra77x · Post by **fra77x** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:29 am

i don't understand your routing! What signals do you merge? and why?
by the way don't use that spray on your scope cards! It won't make them "faster"...

Lima · Post by **Lima** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:45 am

Hi Arcadios!

it is necessary to disconnect midi outpout activity from nuendo midi channel when having midi input activity.

No it isn't!

You can bypass that annoing throuble using this very useful tool made my shayne:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 2&forum=16

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:28 am

fra77, i won't put it on cards

i downloaded these nice midi switches, but they do the same with choosing midi in/out from nuendo.
by the way..................

no matter my routing......
i always get stuck notes.
s..t
to tell you something,
whaen i connect "scopes midi source" to "seq midi dest" without connecting a synth, then i realize that if i record midi singals to nuendo with no synth, just singals played by my midi keyboard, it won't stuck.
now when i connect a synth with polyphony more than 1, no matter if it is connected to "scopes midi source" or "seq midi source", the stucking notes will appear again.
no matter filtering.
sometimes i can play for more than 5 minutes. in that case i think that i fixed it, but no!
it will stuck after....
and to tell you this.
i do not know what the problem is.
scopes synths with rased polyphony more than 1, stuck even when just played, without sequencer (nuendo).

i hate this situation.
helplease helplease helplease

_________________
ELVIS LIVES

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2006-02-24 09:31 ]

Lima · Post by **Lima** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:54 am

Hummm.... That's very tricky

Well, I can suppose a throuble related to your system, because a lot of other people use synthesizer with polifony of 2 voices and more.

I've also experimented some midi stucking or mute notes, but not as often as you tell it happens to you and as I tell you before I belive (and hope) that in my system the problem is my current windows+pc configuration.

Sorry but by now that's all my ideas...

[ This Message was edited by: Lima on 2006-02-24 09:55 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:02 am

thanks lima, but i need help for this.
does anybody know????????

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:30 am

I fixed a "midi note sticking" or skipped note off - by replacing the Scope Midi Filter device in my project. I've also fixed the problem by replacing the Six String in another pro. It seems projects can become unstable, at least some of the devices.
Try rebuilding your project.

/dave

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:11 am

are you refering to just reload six-xtring? or replace the six-string device in scopes devices folder?