stucking keys on midi

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:34 am

hello.
a problem is that when i record a midi track it happens that keys stuck.
so i have a note playing continiously until i press many keys together splashed with both hands, and then it stops.
this also happens every once in a while even on just playng a synth, but when i record with nuendo for ex. it is worse.
i use midi filtering from scope because my keybord (yamaha clavinova)sends clock signal. but stucks have not stopped completely.
help with this!!
is there anything i can do?
i already use higher latencies.
does it have to do with other connections?
(i use midi out from keyboard to midi in on scope).
is my e-piano the problem?
is there any known keyboard that does not stuck at all?
abit ic7g
scope 14dsp+pulsar 6dsp
xp pro
prescott 3gigs
2gigs ram
thanks.

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:19 am

same problem to me,
solved by changing the (broken) midi cable

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:00 am

thanks, but i do not have any broken cable.
and what do you mean by solved?
is it perfect now?
did you buy an expensive good cable?
what system do you have?

_________________
ELVIS PRESLEY IS BACK

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-10-28 11:00 ]

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:36 am

I get stuck notes all the time with Cubase SX3 and Scope 4, using the Scope midi ports. I don't see the same problem with Samplitude 8, so maybe it's a Cubase/WinXP thing. Makes live playing impossible.

/dave

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:20 pm

I never have this problem, I use Scope Midi ports and Cubase.

Check you don't have midi through in cubase together with direct Scope Midi source<-->Scope device connection or any other doubling of midi signal.

Also multizone/multichannel MIDI controllers with more zones active can cause that when going through cubase channels, as there all data are channel changed by cubase track, but you get doublings if you send on several channels together.

Check also if you have multiple emulated midi ports from Cubase.....

Doesn't come to mind anything else....ha, yes, if your Midi controller sends active sensing disable it or filter it, it causes nasty things.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:32 pm

you mean midi through filtering?
anyway, keys get stuck unfortunatelly.
i will try a better cable.
six-string is the application that has the most stucks.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:34 pm

you mean midi through filtering?
anyway, keys get stuck unfortunatelly.
i will try a better cable.
six-string is the application that has the most stucks.

you know 1 to 2 stucks every 8 bars of music is realy a problem for me.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:32 pm

no, he means turn off or filter out active sensing on your controller.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:24 am

it is turned off.
well i believe that it is a scope problem.
for ex. when i play with a vst instrument of steinberg and record on a midi track in nuendo, no matter polyphony, the recording is stable and no keys stuck. this can be seen on the midi lines that appear on the recording session. propellerhead reason 3 has also stable recording and playing.
Now, when i play with six-string(most stucking plugin)a key will soon or late stuck, and the midi recording(nuendo) will be messed because the stucked note makes a continious line on the midi track, so i have to stop, and press record again. this happens in all ulli latencys.
One thing that should be mentioned is that six-string does not stuck often when the polyphony is set to 1. but if i set it to 2 or 3 or at least 6 for playing with a six string guitar the problem will appear.
the worse thing is that there is no specific way of playing that makes it stuck.
please mention that i am not talking about stucked keys 100%. but as i mentioned before, stucked keys once in a while makes me NOT whanting to use such a great plugin.
why?
200 euros plug in on a 20 dsp system and this problem makes it a 0 euro situation.
It happens without steinberg sequencer recording also.
Stucks happen with just scope loaded ALONE.
i mentioned about nuendo because i can see there the stucks during recording on a midi chanel.
please help!!

ELVIS WILL DIE

_________________
ELVIS PRESLEY IS BACK

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-10-29 06:26 ]

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:44 am

I have a Access Virus Indigo keyboard here, plugged into the Scope MIDI In, and I can't say I've ever had stuck notes.

I've have some notes sticking in ProTone, but happens in monophonic mode also, and only happens when I stop playback in the middle of a note-on/note-off combination (i.e. it doesn't get the note-off and keeps on playing the note.)

What's your MIDI signal path for your setup exactly? Do you use Scope MIDI Source -> Seq Dest -> Sequencer -> Seq Source to send stuff to the SixString? Do you get stuck notes when playing back correct MIDI sequences on the SixString? If it happens just when you play your keyboard directly, it's probably a controller problem (i.e. your physical device sending MIDI.)

Things you can try is putting some MIDI Monitor module in your MIDI path to see if the stuck notes are there at the physical MIDI input, or if they happen somewhere else down the line. Check the Note-On and Note-Off messages, when playing single notes or multiple ones.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:44 am

Arcadios orè file,

it seems that you have a strange connection to record synths....if you say that you get a long note in cubase when you record...

You must connect Scope (or Pulsar2 or whatever card)MIDI Source to Sequencer MIDI Destination, then Sequencer MIDI Source to the Six String.

If you do like this and you get long notes in Cubase, the fault is not in Six String, because it comes only AFTER in the MIDI path.

Is that your routing?

[ This Message was edited by: alfonso on 2005-10-29 12:45 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:31 pm

i have made some tests.
when i put midi monitor on the midi in whithout any synth connected i see that the "on" and "off" proccess is fine.
for ex. when i press one key the midi monitor shows "on" and when leave it, it shows "off". when i press and leave many keys together, the "on" of the keys pressed is equal to "off" when i release the keys, which is ok.
Now. when i load six string and raise the polyphony, then after a few presses of the keys some key will stuck, and i see it in the midi monitor because this key only shows "on" and after release, "off" does not appear. for ex. i press 4 keys "4 on" and when i leave the keys i see "3 off" so one is still "on". the strange thing is that this happens even if i disconnect sixstring from midi in. it seems that the certain plugin has some problem and disturbs the propper signal of midi.
this happens and with some other plugins and at the moment i am making tests... tests... tests...

is there a way to get rid of this?
at the moment i play with prodyssey and midi monitor on, no stucks with prodyssey.
i will try minimax more later. minimax was not so stable in the past for me.
i hope that this is not a problem that some of the plugins have and some other do not have.
oh! i remember know that sts samplers have a serious stucking keys problem and thats why i do not use them much.
well ohh................

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:58 pm

Could you tell me exactly wich modules have you used to connect the Six String and the Midi Monitor? What is your exact MIDI routing?

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:02 pm

On 2005-10-29 13:31, ARCADIOS wrote:
i press 4 keys "4 on" and when i leave the keys i see "3 off" so one is still "on". the strange thing is that this happens even if i disconnect sixstring from midi in. it seems that the certain plugin has some problem and disturbs the propper signal of midi.

From this I'd say the problem isn't SixString or any plugin, it's your controller keyboard or the MIDI cable like mentionned in a previous post.

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:51 pm

is it possible to get perfect midi monitoring without a synth loaded, and when i load a synth the midi monitoring to show mistakes?
well i've been trying many configurations.
one thing i can say for sure.
no way to get a 100% stable configuration.

alfonso, "file, asta na pane". meens "my friend, i feel s..."
about the connections i am going to tell you that creamware advice is to connect by using merger so to avoid making big distance (midi going to sequencer first and then to synth).
i prefer connecting more straight.
1.midi from controler to "midi in"(scope)
2.midi(scope) filtered and connected to merger.
3.merger out to midi of synth(sunth L/R to mixer)
4.before merger a second line from midi(scope) to "sequencer midi in".
5."sequencer midi out" filtered to merger
So the synth takes midi signal both from controler midi and sequencer midi.

i repeat that midi monitor shows no mistakes when no synth is loaded. so it is not a matter of broken cable, unless there is a strange singal given back to controler when a synth is loaded.
.............

no sleep tonight

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:17 am

On 2005-10-29 17:51, ARCADIOS wrote:

i prefer connecting more straight.
1.midi from controler to "midi in"(scope)
2.midi(scope) filtered and connected to merger.
3.merger out to midi of synth(sunth L/R to mixer)
4.before merger a second line from midi(scope) to "sequencer midi in".
5."sequencer midi out" filtered to merger
So the synth takes midi signal both from controler midi and sequencer midi.

i repeat that midi monitor shows no mistakes when no synth is loaded. so it is not a matter of broken cable, unless there is a strange singal given back to controler when a synth is loaded.
.............
no sleep tonight

Orea...

Now please try the other way, that I'm using with every device, Six String included without hassles. Connect your Midi hardware source directly to Sequencer dest. without any merger and Sequencer source to Six string. I can ensure you that it works perfect and tight, while the merger can easily bring to doubled data.

Then consider something...Six string is a particular synth that responds also to poly MIDI velocity regarding the auto-bend envelope function. In few words if you draw the same note in cubase twice (one overlapping the other) and you set different velocities for every note and the proper pitch envelope settings, you will have that typical guitar lick where you bend a string up to reach a note while the adiacent higher string is playing that note already...

That's a pretty unique feature that shows some complexity in the MIDI management of the device, so, I'm not sure of that, but it could be that unproperly filtered data coming back from Cubase track while you play could make a mess.

Anyway, please try the other way and let me know.

Yasu. Tha ta siaxis....

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:40 am

On 2005-10-30 01:17, alfonso wrote:
...Then consider something...Six string is a particular synth that responds also to poly MIDI velocity regarding the auto-bend envelope function. In few words if you draw the same note in cubase twice (one overlapping the other) and you set different velocities for every note and the proper pitch envelope settings, you will have that typical guitar lick where you bend a string up to reach a note while the adiacent higher string is playing that note already...

wow, excellent

which reminds me... there is no such thing as a special midi note_off event - it's simply a note_on with velocity zero (according to my humble midi knowledge)
so anything that manipulates velocity (like dynamic fitting in a sequencer etc) can have unwanted side effects

cheers, Tom

Lima · Post by **Lima** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:55 am

Hi, Arcadios. I'm wondering if you have loaded both the hardware midi sources in your project.

If yes, try to remove one of them (remove the pulsar 6dsp one) save your project, close scope and restart it with the new project.

It's strange, but I've experiemented some problems very very very similar to yours last week during a piano recording session and I've resolved it remaking a project from scratch with the strictly necessary modules.

I'm sill investigating the causes, because I've got some other minor throubles, so I don't know much more to help you, maybe in my case there's a system configuration issue (I've got IRQ9 very "busy"... and I'm fighting to free it)
That's my fresh experience, I hope it helps you (In my case, I've saved the session)

[ This Message was edited by: Lima on 2005-10-30 01:57 ]

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:05 am

thanks you guys,
lima, i have one midi module installed, the scope one.
alfonso, "tha ta ftiaxis" means i will fix them. i hope so and thank you.
but what if i want to just play without any sequencer?
about the merger, it gives double signal if sequencer sends midi at the same time while recording. if you change midi chanel in sequencer or if you disable midi out, no midi arrives to merger, isn't that right?
but i will test more.
"nothing is worse than having a partner working hard with you, not much time, and having the fear of unexpected stucks! it makes me full of swetting while hoping to make it till the end, without being stopped and cut again the recording"
thanks again you guys, give me some more, you are realy helpfull.

_________________
ELVIS PRESLEY IS BACK

[ This Message was edited by: ARCADIOS on 2005-10-30 09:08 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:33 am

If you don't use the sequencer you don't need the merger either...just connect your Card MIDI source to the device.