Think your/s XTCproject/s as hidden Scope project/s

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:39 pm

Hi,

You can edit your XTCproject as if it is a scope project with no Scope mixer and that you can't see routingwindow but with all the various possible routings you need.
Add multiple channels to asio dest/source modules (you may also ignore the merge module and directplaymixercontainer, or not), and multiple wave dest/source if you need and link directly.
There are Mix M/S modules and Switch It, in the devices area, capital for mixing multi INs to one Out inside the XTCproject.
It's possible to interconnect the sequencer and/or every other audio application.
Just as a simple example, I send a wave source1 (DVDplayer) to an asio dest (audio CH with Vst/XtcFx) this goes to asio out--->to wave dest (wavelab recording) this goes to wave source2--->to scope out. (this can save resources for those with few DSPs and no powerfull graphics)

It's also possible to record several vsti and/or audio channels in one go (not only as a final mixdown).
Route the asio outs you need direct to asio ins
---Never do this with main asio out (sequencer main out BUS) and keep sure that the audio channels where you're recording (and those you don't want to rec) ALL must be sent to main out BUS---.

Good routing is important when using GSIF source too and it works fine in XTC.

It's also possible to create different XTCprojects, saving each one as XTCproject.pro to an individual folder (maybe with a kind of task suggesting name) and moving the desired file to the SFP/App/XtcApp folder before opening the sequencer. (maybe not much needed but easy)

I'd share my projects but I don't know how to make a screenshot

though I hope this will be helpfull for someone.

Cheers, Ze.

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:55 am

Very helpful post indeed... Thank you.
I particulary liked the asio roundtrip tip...
Now every track coming from fxteleport on second comp or even vstis can be recorded on the fly (so no need for fxfreeze, tape it or whatever...).
Sometimes, stating the obvious can take somebody off from a "thinking loop"...

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:56 am

You got me remember something more, great for those in XTC.

The Directplaymixercontainer module gives two out channels for monitoring real time.
And, if you need, place "Switch It" (with all through active) before it (...and after, too) for diferent audio sources, so the external audio sources (or any) may go to asio dest (recording) and to scope Out (monitoring without asio latency).
This is because I use to play with the sequencer

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:36 am

Here is a step further I just found out ;
I have inserted a compressor, a reverb, a Mix2s and a speaker selecter in the xtcpro ... Now I can have compression on recording and reverb on monitoring WITH 0 LATENCY !! And I can switch this feature on/off while inside Nuendo (on XTC mode). THis time I think I have found the missing link I was looking for !!!
I can't believe it's feasible... I've tried lots of devices and currently doing a list of what works or not....
Modular seems to work this way as well...
Thanks again for the post, otherwise I would have probably never found out about this hidden feature...

Creamware, don't drop XTC and please allow full access to the front DSP plugs & environment while in xtc mode (sfp + xtc).

Wohaw ! I'm back to it....

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:38 pm

I glad you understood me, don't thank, please

one more thing to try, midi controllers to change presets and/or automation to change values

that was when I began to feel need of pen and paper...

I should fight for these before, when I felt XTC was the best and easier way, no doubt, home musicians/composers could get to work with. However, all my personal problems lead me to fall into deep depression long ago and the difficulty to express myself well in English also add for me to a stop. But this would be another post, probably in the Off Topic.

Salut

BB54 · Post by **BB54** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:43 pm

Intresting reading this! I especially like the non ASIO direct monitor part. Can you guys post screenshots, please?

I don't find some of the devices you discuss here, how come? Are they devices from previous (pre-scope) installations?

Just take one with the Prt Scr button, paste into a picture program - then I suppose you need webspace to put it on, and a post the link here. If you don't have any webspace to use, mail the picture to me and I'll put it up.

[ This Message was edited by: BB54 on 2005-09-13 14:51 ]

BB54 · Post by **BB54** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:55 pm

OK, here are some dumps and a list of working devices from Bifop:

A list of working devices

Bifop, I'm unsure of what you mean with the working devices list. Do they work for configuring the XTCProject.pro or later, when using SX or Nuendo in XTC mode?

I managed to get the tracking setup for xtc mode alright in accordance with the dumps above, with reverb and monitoring without latency, very nice. But in SX, all my Creamware XTC devices turned into small windows with no function and I was no longer able to open the XTC control panel from SX.

If the Creamware devices don't work, then there's no point in this... but maybee they do at your place?

rgds
Mikael

[ This Message was edited by: BB54 on 2005-09-16 17:03 ]

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:32 am

Mikael, with working devices, I meant working within the xtcproject.pro environement. THe xtc plugs remain untouched. They still work perfectly here.

What would be the point otherwise indeed !

I wish more devices would work under this system but for now only freebies using old preset system seem to be able to work in this fashion.

BY the way I use SFP 4.0. Be sure that you still are under scope asio driver in SX. It could have returned back to mme asio.

You'll notice that depending were you take your asio source in the signal chain, you'll be able to do things like recording dry and with effect at the same time (using different asio channels of course).

Now if only somebody could design a mix4s or 8sources that got a volume slider, a mute button and a meter, we would have a mixer for dsp monitoring and signal chain manipulation ...

[ This Message was edited by: Bifop on 2005-09-17 09:35 ]

BB54 · Post by **BB54** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:21 pm

OK, I may have messed up my SFP installation to the point where things don't work properly.

Could you explain the function of "Switch it" a little or even describe the functionality you get from each of the important devices (if you have the time of course

). This could probably be of intrest for more people than me.

"Speaker setup" is for splitting the signal for parallell processing as I understand it?

rgds
Mikael

[ This Message was edited by: BB54 on 2005-09-17 13:23 ]

BB54 · Post by **BB54** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:06 pm

OK, a new install and now it's working! Here's my first setup if anyone's intrested of trying a simpler setup (I don't have some of the devices used by Bifop in the screenshots above).

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:30 pm

sorry, no much time to join you

about the "devices" shown I believe you (BB54) can get those you miss in "their" area

soon I'll come

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:05 am

Yes all the devices shown are free devices from the devices section of this forum.

I since have done a much better setup with direct monitoring and an spdif external reverb that goes back to Nuendo. The reverb is still usable from within Nuendo and the wet signal is coming back in the Nuendo mixer (yes, with direct monitoring activated !...).
You can do that as well using one of the free dsp verbs. The advantage is you don't "waste" dsp power just for monitoring purpose.
Pictures will follow later...

BB54 · Post by **BB54** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:39 pm

Here's some more routing pics from Bifop, he'll explain more below (hopefully

):

#1

#2

[ This Message was edited by: BB54 on 2005-09-26 15:48 ]

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:35 pm

Thanks BB54 for hosting and posting the pictures.

Here are a few explanations about the last two setups.

Pic 1:

It's perfect to have direct monitoring + reverb for tracking.
The speaker setup is for activating and adjusting reverb send for the direct monitored signal. The reverb is an external Spdif unit here. This setup hardly uses any Dsp.

The wave source going to Asio2 is for your winamp, wavelab etc... Straight to the host. It's handy if you have a control surface and.or if you want to reuse the audio or apply fxes to it etc in your host...
Since XTC doesn't have any external mixer nor windows one, it's much better IMO to get audio back into the host.

The Asio going to Asio is for having many channels of realtime export @ a time (if you want to bounce many channels of vstis and or fxes -internal or external-

The 16 bits asio source can be swapped with the 24 bits and you can of course adjust the I/O's to your needs (A16Ultra, Adat I/O...).

2---------- Is a setup with a free dsp reverb (PT 2012ST) instead of the external spdif unit. In this example as well as in the previous one, you can use the Dsp reverb in your host (at least it works in Nuendo..)as well since the Asio send is merged (by the mix2s) with the monitored signal.

Mix2s and speaker setup are free devices from Z-link forum.

Now, if we could get a MIX2S with a mute button and a level fader controlled by midi, we could (providing you build a Nuendo or Sonar device panel or logic environnement) get the monitoring all controlled by the host.
I still think Creamware could make a little effort and render all devices compatible with this mode or even better, give us an xtc front mixer with dsp plugs...
I really suspect the technical limitation is not the limiting factor here....

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:55 pm

[ This Message was edited by: zezappa on 2005-09-27 16:27 ]

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:27 pm

On 2005-09-27 14:35, Bifop wrote:

1- The wave source going to Asio2 is for your winamp, wavelab etc... Straight to the host. It's handy if you have a control surface and.or if you want to reuse the audio or apply fxes to it etc in your host...

2- The 16 bits asio source can be swapped with the 24 bits and you can of course adjust the I/O's to your needs (A16Ultra, Adat I/O...).

3- Now, if we could get a MIX2S with a mute button and a level fader controlled by midi, we could (providing you build a Nuendo or Sonar device panel or logic environnement) get the monitoring all controlled by the host.

1- remember you can configure (windows audio) to get more than one wave source and dest if you need to choose different I/Os

2- I suggest asio2 32 source64 always, it works well with all host config and same dsp consume.

3- No faders, but "switch it" is midi controlable inside xtcproject, all through on or off then you can switch between 8 different sources to its out. You can include more than one (for asio/wave Ins and Outs and use them with the Mix2 for intricate routing)

It's good to get a screenshot of xtcproject what I still can't get (ashamed)

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:14 am

1 - One wave driver is simpler for my needs, since it is multiclient (looks like anyway since I can start many apps using the "creamware wave dest 1"succesfully).

3 - Not quite the same... I've used the switch it (look at the other config pics I did above) but the abscence of a level fader makes it a no go in my view since you can't control the amount of send then....

Having a device like a midi controlled Mix2s + switch + fader would be tremendous by combining them with a switch it. We would then have the equivalent of a mixer !

Since, these solutions are mostly workarounds, let's face it. The ergonomy of a large setup of this kind would be very bad.
What we need is a simple working front XTC mixer.
I'd be much happier with an elegant working solution than tons of detours or workarounds.
But so few peoples seems to be interested in this matter, Creamware are kind of autistic when it comes to this XTC redhair child that I really feel like Don Quichotte fighting windmills.

[ This Message was edited by: Bifop on 2005-09-28 01:15 ]

zezappa · Post by **zezappa** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:00 am

It's all true and I agree with everything you said, Bifop, so... I take Sancho Pança place

BB54 · Post by **BB54** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:53 pm

Of course the best - and the only truly decent solution - (come on Creamware!) would be a mixer with direct monitoring and all plugins and synths accessible both sound and GUI-wise from the XTC mode. This would bring very good and unique selling points to the Scope platform and must be well within reach technically since it is possible to get it to work half-way with the simple means described in this thread.

Some kind of channel on/off + level contol and a reverb of at least Masterverb Pro dignity would be prio #1 for me if I had programming skills.

The free reverb used in the screenshots above is fully accessible from xtc mode, knobs and all. This is the way all plugins should work. If this is a functionality permitted by the old preset handling system as you suggest above, Bifop: are there any mixers with old preset handling still available?

[ This Message was edited by: BB54 on 2005-09-29 13:31 ]

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:27 am

BB54, I tried the "route" mixer device 1.2 & 1.3, It doesn't work.
Actually it's a mix of old presets and anything that implies dsp routing that make it a no go apparently....
But since the modular works, I'm going to try with a modular mixer to see if i could get any signal throught...