about vinco..

[steffensen]

it says on the CW site:
"The input control automatically sets the threshold and compensates the gain accordingly so you can focus completely on using the Attack and Release controls to get the sonic effect you’re after."

dunno about your versions, but mine doesnt "compensates the gain accordingly". i have no problem with that tho, ive learned to use it that way. many compressors work in the same way actually, just thought this was kinda missleading somehow..

one thing im having some problem with on the other hand, is that id like to use vinco for as many things as possible as i like the warmth and the overall approach of things with vinco. the big peaking transients i get when using it, makes it almost impossible tho. (if i dont just use it mildly that is.)

things ive been using it mostly on is basses and drums. perhaps i should use it on diff things instead.. or just use the peak mode.

whats yer thoughts bout this?
am i imagining things? :S

[garyb]

use the output control to compensate the final volume.

transients? haven't had that problem. maybe you are using extreme settings with a long attack time and the transient is uncompressed, unlike the body of the sound......the output level should fix that, but i doubt that's the effect you're after. i find that when the device is used properly, it's hard to tell it's doing anything. the sound is just fatter and less dynamic. it certainly is possible to create wild effects if that is what is desired, though....

[steffensen]

On 2005-08-15 10:34, garyb wrote:
use the output control to compensate the final volume.

yea, im doin that. just saying that the info on the site are a little missleading in that matter.

anyhow, im now using that extreme settings tbh, not more than i use any other compressor.
ive tried the attack at 0 as well as full, still transients.
sometimes i squeeze it a little harder perhaps, but thats mostly for various efx processing tho.

as i said before, i think the best use for vinco is to use it subtle. wich makes me glad d-comp exists, as i luv that one for a little harder compression.

im gonna try vinco out on some other stuff next, as i really dig the sound that comes out of it!
it seems ive been mainly focused on using it for basses and drums for some reason..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: steffensen on 2005-08-15 13:59 ]</font>

[blazesboylan]

Usually sharp transients == good for drums!

Vinco is modelled after the old-school Urei 1176LN limiter. According to some CWA staff, it sounds and reacts identically. I disagree, it's not *quite* the same -- there are some things that transformers and old capacitors do to sound that are hard to emulate in software. The buttons are more limited too, and I think the knobs are reversed, IIRC. But Vinco definitely has a *similar* look and feel to the 1176. And I would be lost without my Vinco! It's got a great "dark" character for a software compressor, which I really love.

Most people don't use 1176's on drums, either. Except for people who love Zeppelin drums -- there are tons of people out there who love the 1176 on kick (I know because I got reamed by them on a messageboard when I complained that the 1176 is no good for kick drum! ) I think it's an acquired taste, and although I haven't tried Vinco on kick yet, I have come around to really liking the sound of a kick through 1176. So I wouldn't be surprised if, with a bit of tweaking, Vinco would sound great on kick too.

I do love Vinco strapped across the drum bus though. It tames hissy cymbals wonderfully and acts as a cohesive. My other 2 favourites are on bass and especially on the mix bus! Oooooh I love it there. I was skeptical at one point, but someone here on PlanetZ raved about it (EDIT: it was kensuguro -- thanks Ken! ), and I'm now a convert.

Anyway the design of the controls is taken directly from the 1176. The response curves on the outboard unit's "Input" and "Output" are very similar to Vinco's -- so if anyone's to blame for being "misleading" it's Urei!

The manual for the 1176 is one of the best damned instruction manuals on audio compression I have ever seen. It's beautiful and makes me weep for simpler times when gear was built big and heavy and indestructible, and user manuals were just as thick and heavy and indestructible.

Urei 1176LN manual





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: blazesboylan on 2005-08-15 17:04 ]</font>

[R.D. Olivaw]

On 2005-08-15 13:28, steffensen wrote:
ive tried the attack at 0 as well as full, still transients.

That's weird. I do not have Vinco but the 1176 fastest attack time (attack's knob fully turned) is 20 microseconds. All audible transients should be compressed with such a fast attack...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: r_Daneel Olivaw on 2005-08-15 18:30 ]</font>

[garyb]

the 1176 has an optical detector circuit. it doesn't respond the same as a solid state circuit. 20ms is a LONG attack time on that comp.....

[hubird]

depends...milli or micro...

[King of Snake]

btw. Vinco's max attack is 50 ms. That's plenty long enough to get that SNAP back in your drumsounds

[blazesboylan]

On 2005-08-15 20:19, garyb wrote:
the 1176 has an optical detector circuit.

No, it doesn't.

The LA series of compressors were the opto cell ones. (LA-2A, LA-3A, LA-4, ...)

[garyb]

hey, you're right!
duh...
http://www.uaudio.com/company/history/compressors.html
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_revision_history/
read both articles before, too...
well, still, the attack times are short, because the thing is slow. 20ms is a long attack time on that compressor regardless of what's going on. just use it as it works best. nothing is good for everything....of you look at the picture of the original, it's not that clearly marked, in other words, just use it as it works best. short and long times are relative, to the position of the knob, not the actual number.

also, good point hubird. it IS micro seconds for attack on the original(20-800), VERY short attack times for a slow detector circuit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2005-08-16 02:40 ]</font>

[R.D. Olivaw]

also, good point hubird. it IS micro seconds for attack on the original(20-800), VERY short attack times for a slow detector circuit.

That's what I said in my previous post...
No (audible) transient can resist a 20 microseconds attack. I don't know if Vinco is as fast as the 1176LN, but UAD's is.

[garyb]

yeah, well no transient can survive 800 micro seconds either(the max on the real 1176), and yet, transients DO survive with the real 1176(i've had 15 or so of them go through my hands). i still say that the 1176 detector circuit is slow and the micro second attack time is a dream that doesn't express the actual action of the compressor. short/long attack times are relative to the position of the knob, not the numbers....

the dbx 166 has attack times of 3-340 MILLI seconds, and yet it does the same job as the 1176's 20-800 MICRO seconds. i don't think that's an apple to apple comparison as far as scale goes...

[Grok]

A look at the Urei 1176 manual gives the following values: from less than 20 microseconds (not 20 milliseconds !...) to 800 microseconds for the attack time, that is from 0.020 milliseconds to 0.8 milliseconds.


A look at the Vinco gives from 0,1 milliseconds to 50 milliseconds for the attack time, that is from 100 microseconds to 50 000 microseconds.


The Vinco also has another kind of peak limiter: the softclip ("tape saturation").


The Vinco has a larger scale than the Urei 1176 for the release time: from 30 milliseconds to 1500 milliseconds (Urei 1176: from 50 milliseconds to 1100 milliseconds).


The Vinco has one more compression ratio than the 1176 (= 2:1)


The Vinco has two modes: Peak mode and RMS mode.



The Vinco has a sidechain...



The Vinco is an evolution inspired by the 1176 but is not a 1176 1:1 modelisation. The Vinco sounds outstandingly well...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2005-08-16 11:40 ]</font>

[R.D. Olivaw]

thanks Grok for this useful and informative post!

[Grok]

Thanks r_Daneel Olivaw, you give me too much honours I just report what I see (and feel) !... Glad you find it useful

[wayne]

Outstandingly put, Grok

[blazesboylan]

I agree Grok except for a few of omissions :

- The 1176 also has a side chain, although the "stereo adapter" is hard to come by and really you're better off with an 1178 if you want stereo.

- The 1176 also has the "all buttons in" ratio, or "British mode", which reputedly does crazy things to the signal. (I haven't ever bothered trying it, but maybe GaryB or Daneel can comment?)

- The 1176 has an adjustable meter (you can zero-set it to whatever voltage you like) and three meter modes: gain reduction, +8 (the meter doesn't react as violently for +4 dbu signals) and +4 (for standard +4 dbu signals).

- The 1176 has no softclip, but it does have transformers! Trafos in themselves alter the shape of transients...

- The Vinco does not require you to solder your own darned cables to hook up to a barrier strip. The 1176 does.

(Unless you can find the rare "XLR adapter" and install it...)

But I still agree 100% with Grok's conclusion! The Vinco sounds very well indeed.

[R.D. Olivaw]

On 2005-08-17 18:58, blazesboylan wrote:
- The 1176 also has the "all buttons in" ratio, or "British mode", which reputedly does crazy things to the signal. (I haven't ever bothered trying it, but maybe GaryB or Daneel can comment?)

This "all-buttons" mode adds harmonic distorsion, can be very useful for making a sound "dirty". The gain reduction meter gets crazy too.
But it's not a good idea to try it on an original Urei 1176, for this is killing the electronic... I know you can do it safely on the UA 2-1176 (the stereo/dual mono UA reissue) but I'm not sure the UA 1176LN manages this all-buttons mode safely as well.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: r_Daneel Olivaw on 2005-08-18 07:12 ]</font>

[Mr Arkadin]

Yes, i really wish they'd modelled the 'British-mode' too, if it distorts i like it!