PSY-Q and SPL Vitalizer compared

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hubird

Post by hubird »

About Creamware's PSY-Q and the Vitalizer MK2 from SPL

I was asking myself, could I sell my SPL Vitalizer MK2, as I own the Psy-Q.

So I started to study the Psy-Q closely, and tried to compare it with the Vitalizer by processing a bad cassette tape file, containing (female) Indian Buddhist vocals accorded with some few instrumentation (my brother needed a cd copy).
It's a perfect test file, as specially vocals may suffer from 'vitalizing'.
Both hard- and soft apps are suited to prevent them sounding dull.

I was surprised to find out that the Psy-Q is really a 'copy' of the SPL thing, including the secundary sections, tho the different components are named or organised in a more or less different way.

I was able to get exactly the same audio result with both the plugin and the Vitalizer.
(Which means I can sell the Vitalizer now :smile: )

Another thing was, I could combine the information of both the Vitalizer and the Psy-Q manual, and now i do understand the Psy-Q much better.
The SPL manual is much more scientific, where the Psy-Q manual in a way is more practical.

For a better understanding of the Psy-Q, I strongly recommend you to read the SPL VItalizer manual.
For now, it's easier to have the pdf open on your screen whyle reading along, as there are nice scientific graphics in it I'll refer to :smile:

You can dl it here
Don't expect me telling you any news, I'm just trying to explain in short what I found out :smile:


About the main process

'Vitalizing' is based on the fact that the human ear doesn't perceive frequencies in a linear way.
We perceive the freqs between 1kHz and 3kHz better than all others, probably on account of evolutionary reasons.
Vitalizing exactly does correct this, without the disadvantages of streight band eq-ing.
The mids should be damped, the bass and the highs should be emphasized, to fit the human ear.
Above the Mid/High value set, the Mid/High creates a lineair increase, while below it damps.
The Bass processor takes care for the lows.

[The Mid/High doesn't change the 'spectral content' of the audio, it doesn't really changes the objective loudness of frequencies, the process is much more subtle, and is based on 'amplitude-depending phase shifting', whatever that may be :grin:.
Also you don't get comb-filter effects like normal band eq-ing does.
It's definitely not the same as adding generated harmonics based on analysing the audio itself, which is called 'exciting' and can be fatigueing on the longer run].

You say, ok I take this for granted, what's so difficult then with vitalizing.

Speaking about the Psy-Q way of naming, the complexity is mainly in the way the Sound section and the HighEQ section work together.

First, If you take both sections apart, it's clear what happens if you activate the single process:

- In case of the 'Sound' section you get extra clearness in the mid/high area.
The result is a more defined and frontal, fresh sound without sounding harsh or 'bellish'.
The more amount of Mid/High the more downward freqs are involved in the uplifting process.
On the SPL front plate you can see the depicted kHz numbers are going down counter clockwise, the PsyQ hides this fact, both knobs however work the same normal way: more effect turning the knob to the right.

- In case of the High EQ section you get -again- the high freqs uplifted.
The PsyQ uses the term 'Shape' instead of kHz on the SPL, probably more correct technically, as it isn't really an eq.
The only thing the Psy-Q manual says about it, is that it 'adjusts the filter characteristic'.
It seems to work like the well known variable Q factor (bandwidth of filter), but I guess there's more.


Why two (Mid) Hi sections

Before discussing the way they work together, I have to explain why there seem to be two eq-like circuits for about the same frequency spectrum.
(I take the SPL Vitalizer approach to start from)

The Sound section adjust the sound of the original audio to the human ear, by de-emphasizing the frequencies which we humans are best suited for to hear.

See the famous Fletcher-Munson curve in the Vitalizer manual, p.13, it's this curve which expresses our human way of perceiving sounds.
If you would have a sound with this frequencie/volume division, we humans think this division is 'linear', is 'equal in loudness', and that is what we experience as pleasant to our ears :smile:
Vitalizing is correcting the audio towards this curve (in a more pleasant and natural way than band eq-ing does).

However, every advantage has it's disadvantage :grin:
I'll explain this.

The 'equaling' process emphasizes the frequencies above the frequency set with the Mid/High knob, but damps the frequencies below it...

This is caused by the type of process itself, it is an effect normal band eq-ing doesn't perform.

While we are actually looking for exactly that damping process, it's not always good specially not for vocals, speech frequencies, which are represented in the frequency area we humans are best suited for, evolutionary.

Here the HighEQ section comes in :smile:

While the Mid/High section does what it does, the HighEQ section "comes in place to extract certain frequencies from this process" (SPL manual p.14).
It's a magic formulation somehow, but it's all there is, in both manuals.
The Psy-Q manual has a bit different approach to explain the use of the HiEQ section, see my next chapter :smile:

With the HiEQ Shape knob you can 'catch' the specific voice in the audio, and with the Process[/i] knob you can 'bring it back up front.
That's why the SPL Vitalizer is so greatly used often for uplifting voices like on radio and other live voice settings.
But keep in mind that both sections do different things technically, they must have different algorhythms, even if they both influence the subjective frequency experiencing.


------------------------------------

Mid/High and Hi section working together

Only here I found some differences between Vitalizer and Psy-Q , in both manual presenting and way of cooperating of the two sections, and I think the Psy-Q is a bit more powerfull.

If you combine both Process params on the Psy-Q by activating them at the same time, things seem to be confusing a bit, as they seem to work contrary.

As the Psy-Q manual says:

"To prevent the addition of too much high-frequency energy, the Process control in the High EQ section interacts with the Mid/High control in the Sound section.
The more the High EQ is used, the less effect the Mid/High EQ has".

So, using them together, you never can independently adjust the two frequency ranges of the Mid/Highs and the Highs.
Changing the HiEQ amount, you will always 'negatively' influence the MidHigh component.

[This reminds me at the old and still valid wave/particle discussion about light, in modern micro physica.
The deeper you dive into one character of light (wave) the less you can learn about the properties of the other aspect (particle).
The same with velocity and mass, if I remember well].

As if the creators of this plug realize this behaviour can't be explained and justified in a rational way, they write on page 10:

" You can archieve good results with a combination of both units by setting the Mid/High and Process (High EQ) controls to mid-position by double-clicking them ".
The mid position of the Mid-Hi obviously is at about the 3,5 kHz value, where the Fletcher-Munson curve starts getting upward.
The Vitalizer shows that value, where the Psy-Q doesn't.

I guess they meant 'Mid/High and (High EQ) Process controls'.
They as well must have been confused here :grin:

With the SPL Vitalizer, my impression is that the HiEQ section influences the Mid/Hi section much less than with the Psy-Q, and maybe this is reflected in the way the function of the HighEQ is presented a bit differently in both manuals.

Where the Vitalizer explaines that the HighEQ is suited for repairing the disadvantages of the (necessory) Mid/High vitalizing process, the Psy-Q manual says:

" With material which is already rich in high-frequency content, the highs in the Sound section sound very clear and defined.
The High EQ can soften these highs.
In order to prevent the two high-frequency components from adding up excessively, the high component of the Sound section is progressively decreased as the High EQ amount is further raised
".

In my own words, the Vitalizer manual refers to bring stuff 'up front', where the Psy-Q manual talks about calming down a bit the main process...
Anyway, both approaches are usefull, depending on the source material,, and I found it revealing for understanding the Psy-Q to compare both :smile:


----------------------------------

[/b]Other remarks[/b]


Both the Vitalizer and the Psy-Q have the same remaining functions, although they look different at first sight.
I think the Vitalizer has a much better and more logical layout concerning them.

Maybe the only - stupid - reason for this is that Creamware had to present things different from the Vitalizer, to prevent being accused by SPL for copying them.

Bass Sound

In the Sound section of the Psy-Q (and the Vitalizer) also is included the Bass division.
I think the way this parameter is presented in the manual and on the surface GUI of the Psy-Q, is mixed up.

On the one hand the whole section is called Sound, on the other hand the blue sqare button in this section is also named Sound (manual p.6).
If it's the name of the button, then it should have been placed beneath the button, like with the other buttons!

Also the way this 'Sound' button function is explained is meager, compared to the same function with the Vitalizer.
To get a perfect insight in what this button does, read the SPL Vitalizer, there's a graphic which makes clear very well the effect.
It chooses between soft and tight, where 'tight' has a smaller boost curve than the soft alternative, with a peak at around 80 kHz for both.
You can understand 'soft' as PA like mix, and 'tight' as radio mix, to get an idea.

The Vitalizer has an elegant mid-swich knob for this, with zero effect in the middle click position,
To the right is called tight, to the left it is called soft, more is 'amount'.

[The Bass processor is needed, because the Mid/High processor is di-chotomic, boosting above and damping below the set frequency.
Linear perceiving of the frequencie requires definitely bass boosting, as the Fletcher-Munson curve shows].

Compressor and Soft/Peak-Clipping

Next is the Compressor.
On the Vitalizer it is placed where it belongs, alongside the Bass knob.
It should compensate for possibly strong boosting by the bass processor.

The Soft Clip function of the Psy-Q is what is called Gain Reduction (led) with the Vitalizer, I guess.
You can win 2 dB at the top of the headroom area by cutting 2 dB of the loudest peaks, but you need to push the Gain if you are processing audio material that isn't normalized to the max.

A peak led indicates if you're doing too much.

Here again the Vitalizer easily wins the layout match.
The peak led is integrated in the blue Gain Reduction led, which colors red in case of a peak.


Conclusion

It's remarkable that the Vitalizer is more convenient and clear without any led bar than the Psy-Q, regarding what's happening to the sound!
Gain, Bass Sound, Compressor, Gain Reduction and Gain-Peak is handled by the Vitalizer with three knobs and one two-color led, and the flow is totally clear.

Also, speaking about flow, on the Vitalizer the Gain and the Compressor/Reduction/Peak unit are placed completely at the left side, giving the feeling that this precedes the actual processing part...John Wayne, the good guy, also comes always from the left :grin:

At last the Vitalizer has a on/off switch not alone for the whole eq division, but also for the Stereo Expander processor, which is very convenient if you wanne check what the processors actually is doing with the audio source.
Any soft version should have this, as it doesn't cost anything.

At the plus side of the Psy-Q there's the margin reset button, SoftClip on/off, Bass Compr on/off (why not one for eq section as a whole), and of course the possibility of saving your values (as a preset).
Plus the Psy-Q is absolutely hiss free as it's functioning completely in the digital domain...you should turn the Drive knob (=Gain) of the Vitalizer up, to prevent hearable hiss at slow fade outs.

Most important however is: the Psy-Q sounds fan-tas-tic.
Together with the manual of the Vitalizer and some getting-used-to-it factor you have an ultimate plugin that you don't wanne miss.
An UI update and two extra on/off buttons would make it perfect :smile:


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-12-24 20:56 ]</font>
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wayne
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Post by wayne »

Great stuff, Hube :cool:
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Post by alfonso »

Fantastic work! :smile:
hubird

Post by hubird »

To spice it up :wink: , I've uploaded a small fragment from the test file.
Not too special, but for those who aren't familiar with psyco-acoustic processing :smile:

As said, I recorded it from a stupid (old?) casset tape, chroomdioxide, ideal for the test, Besides that, it's also ideal because of the main role for the (female) choir, an area where a psycho-acoustic plug is supposed to shine by nature :smile:

It's a Buddhist mantra, original file takes about 29 minutes (...minimal changes, in fact no changes at all, only a fabulous and linear built up minimal peak around the half of the track..that's 14 minutes live volume controll in and out...).

For the purists as well as for the musicions, It's called Om Namaha Shiva Ya (could be spelled wrong).

I took a reasonable length of 8 (slow) measures, to allow getting used to the sound.
Only Psy-Q applied.

You'll hear what happens without any explanation:-)
(mp3 256k/VBR).

Other Psy-Q settings are easily possible as well , you can place the voices in the mix from front to back in centimeter/inches, dependent from the mix between Mid/Hi and HighEQ! :smile:
I kept them just enough behind, to keep it relaxed, to my feeling :smile:
The instrumental 'additions' like the bongos, sitar and guitar, are built up nicely in the track as a whole, something I had to discount.

http://www.ezsound.nl/huub/PlanetZ/Shiva%20PSY-Q.mp3

:smile:


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-10-06 17:02 ]</font>
Grok
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Post by Grok »

What a great load of pedantic bullsh*t! :roll:


Nevermind, if you can use it, you don't need to understand it. But please don't spread false notions :roll:


That's the beauty of the PsyQ: it don't need to be fully understood to be efficiently used. Thanks Creamware, great job for a great plugin.
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valis
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Post by valis »

Grok if something here is incorrect why not post a correction for those who will refer to this thread in the future?
Counterparts
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Post by Counterparts »

Grok wrote:
What a great load of pedantic bullsh*t! :roll:
My, how constructive! :lol:

Or...is it? :wink:

I am awaiting your flood of enlightened understanding with baited breath.

Royston

p.s. cheers Huub! :smile:
hubird

Post by hubird »

Thanks guys for pitying me :smile:
I guess he's got frustrated in the OSX-Linux thread, as he can't handle to be corrected.
He can't handle a community like planetz anyway, respect and argueing are not part of his vocabulaire, specially if he feels attacked.
Never overwon uncertainty it must be.
I'm sorry to say this.
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Post by Liquid EDGE »

Started to try and read, but my brain started to hurt. might have summin to do with still being up at 6.30 in the morning with no sleep.. will try again later.

i want to understand wot these things do and which was better? was there a conclusion..?

spl or psy-q being better. or were they identical. from my scimming they treated the hi end in respesct to the mid.himid differently. so spose both are wanted for slightly different resuts.. eer i better try and sleep..
hubird

Post by hubird »

I must admit, a few lines are crossfading :smile:
Comparing, explaining, and reviewing :grin:

It started with the question if i could sell the Vitalizer without loosing anything important, given that I have the Psy-Q.

So I had to compare them both.
Therefor I had to check what parts were more or less identical, so I studied both manuals thoroughly, which was needed also because the plugs are'nt easy to get grip on.

Then I found they are very identical, though the Vitalizer looks much more practical en precise (like real values instead of 'min-->127').

It took some time to find it all out, so I thought let's post it on planetz, specially as the information in the Vitalizer manual is great for understanding the working of the Psy-Q.

If I was rich, I would keep my Vitalizer, for reasons of great and clear design.
At least I do understand the Psy-Q now much better than before, so selling the Vitalizer doesn't do too much pain :smile:

Please read my story from the perspective what you're looking for.
It was not my first intention to put the Vitalizer to the front, I just used it to comment the Psy-Q and share my findings :smile:
cheers.
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Post by King of Snake »

On 2005-01-04 22:46, Grok wrote:
What a great load of pedantic bullsh*t! :roll:


Nevermind, if you can use it, you don't need to understand it. But please don't spread false notions :roll:


That's the beauty of the PsyQ: it don't need to be fully understood to be efficiently used. Thanks Creamware, great job for a great plugin.
what's with the jerkoff attitude man? We don't need this kind of crap here.
hubird

Post by hubird »

he must have bin groggy...
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Post by AltMR »

good job, hubird
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Post by Shroomz~> »

very interesting and informative....thanks
for sharing your findings on this one hubird!
:wink:
Grok
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Post by Grok »

Hi group,

Unfortunately, Hubird explanations are falses and confusing, because himself didn't understand the thing.

But, this is of no real importance, as I wrote that PsyQ can be used without understanding how it works. Just follow what your ears and brain tell you. Kudos to Creamware for this plugin, it's a deep plugin and a real "secret weapon" (when combined with other apps that experience can help you to find :wink: ).

The only little problem with this thread, is that spreading falses notions is not really interesting, except for some egos considerations.

Some asked me to "share my lights" on this topic, if I had some. The answer is pretty simple: the most important thing that the PsyQ does is aligning harmonics by the way of phase rotations. Then, it can also add some EQ and some compression (bass frequencies) and limiting (softclip), and some MS stereo adjusting, but the core of the PsyQ "magic" is in harmonics alignment.

Another plugin that does harmonics alignment (but no so refined as the PsyQ) is the BBS Sonic Maximiser.
Toujours l'Amour!
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wayne
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Post by wayne »

Man, the problem seems to be, false notions or not, that you set out to insult someone who has made an honest attempt at demystifying a plug.

Your knowledge is appreciated, unlike your manners.
hubird

Post by hubird »

@Grok
You replied to this thread now and before just because you felt frustrated being addressed personnally by me in the OSX thread.

The tone in your post of today is the same as before, so your ego is still hurt.
Not the best starting point for taken seriously at your todays comment.

Anyway, you didn't read my stuff well enough, therefor I'll post again next quote from the Vitalizer's manual.

I'm telling you on forehand: PsyQ (as well as Vitalizer) is not about adding harmonics, it's about phase shifting of frequences and harmonics.
And don't say both hard and software apps are different!

The Stereo Vitalizer MK2 works with steep filters and controlled changes of the phase relationships of the high frequencies and harmonics.
We consiously did without the generator principle of 'Exiters'.
The Stereo Vitalizer MK2's High EQ and harmonic filter does not add any distortions to the original signal, unlike with the generator principle.
...This significantly reduces the hearing fatigue effect on the listener.


May be you're talking about the old Behringer shit of 12 years ago, that was imitating the old and classic Exiter effect?
If I'm right, those were based on adding harmonics in the way you seem to aim at.

Read my post again, it's already there.
And be happy.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-03-11 23:35 ]</font>
Grok
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Post by Grok »

Aligning harmonics is not adding harmonics, don't make this confusion. And, please, don't put words in my mouth that I've not written.

In conclusion, the PsyQ core principle is very simple to explain and to understand, and doesn't need the spreading of all this monumental pedantic illiterate confusion (as a honest attempt as it can be).

Cheers,
Grok
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Grok
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Post by Grok »

On 2005-03-11 20:54, wayne wrote:
Man, the problem seems to be, false notions or not, that you set out to insult someone who has made an honest attempt at demystifying a plug.

Your knowledge is appreciated, unlike your manners.
Sorry for having been harsh to your feelings, please show me my supposed insults. And, you know, even if I like people, I'm not in search of a fan club. So, straigth language doesn't disturb me. Falses notions irritate me a lot, I know I'm not perfect. And my english is not as refined as I would like it to be.


Anyway, Hubird has now pointed what is the core and most important in the PsyQ, by this quote:
(...) controlled changes of the phase relationships of the high frequencies and harmonics.

This partial information (pedant and rather obscure) can be simplified and completed by: "aligning harmonics" on the fundamentals, by the way of controlled phase shifts (or "phase rotations", as I used this term perhaps too quickly and badly translated from the french technical laguage).


This means that existing relative high harmonics (and high frequencies partials) in the original sound are temporally advanced to be temporally aligned with the fundamentals lower frequencies in the sound. Then, instruments fundamentals and harmonics start coarsely "in the same time", unlike as with the original sound that has been corrected, and our ears like it very much (as our ears don't like very much when high frequencies harmonics and partials come too late relatively to the fundamentals: it sounds "dull"). Without intellectualy understanding the process, our ears and brain can feel and determine what are the good settings for this correction.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2005-03-12 06:14 ]</font>
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Mr Arkadin
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Post by Mr Arkadin »

Grok wrote:
I'm not in search of a fan club
Just as well, i don't think you'll find any fans round here.

Mr A
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