Logic Pro 7

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:44 pm

at <a href="http://www.emagic.de">emagic</a> or <a href="http://www.apple.com">apple</a>.

I'd love, if something like sculpture would be possible on scope, never heard sounds possible

some key features (beside already known):
- distributed audio processing via network
- apple loops, adjust to the tempo
- auto tuning of audio tracks
- global tracks (tempo, video, chords, etc.)
- external instruments (like ext. expanders), freezable
- ultrabeat (analogue drum box with step sequenzer
- sculpture (phy. modelling synth with morphing capabilites)
- Save/Load Channel Strip instrument and plug-in configurations
- Guitar Amp
- playing several AIs with one midi sequence (layering)
- caps lock engages computer keyboard for playing midi notes
- GarageBand Song File Import
- up to 6 GB of sounds/presets/channel strip settings
- etc.

best
Wolfgang

_________________
<a href="http://www.worldless.com/sfp">wolf audio design</a>
<a href="http://www.worldless.com">worldless productions</a>

[ This Message was edited by: wolf on 2004-09-29 18:21 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:24 pm

I can hear some grinding...

and

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-09-29 20:45 ]

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:34 am

Well, Logic Pro is out of my budget but I have to have a real good look at the Express version

hmm, they abandoned OS9 so for now spending the money for upgrade is useless. Let's patiently wait for the OSX Scope software...

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-10-01 04:42 ]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:03 pm

For me,

Untill Emaple decides to jump onboard with PDC no matter how good they make the app or what devices they include for free I just couldnt imagine making a switch.

I used to be a logic 4 guy on Mac, but since I moved to PC its just been a more upgradable situation and cost effective.

Either way, no PDC means no competition

Cheers!

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:50 pm

What's so important about full PDC beside using UAD/PowerCore in busses/auxes ?
I use busses/auxes mainly for reverbs and delays and some routing tricks (e.g. kick to comp sidechain for treating pads) and submixes I do in scope, so I don't miss it in any way.

Remember, that Logic has a very flexible audio engine, where you can route bus2 to bus1 and back to bus2 (or bus "put any number in here") or even route an aux to itself (I don't know, if any other native audio engine is capable of this task, at least not cubase, as it is linear structured; realizing full PDC is very easy in this case, but you can route busses only upwards/in one direction in a linear structured audio engine).

Don't understand me wrong, but I'm really wondering, why so many people think, this is the most important feature ever (while all the other really helpful features and additions are overseen imho).

I can only remember one situation, where I had a problem with missing PDC and a workaround was done quite fast.
But perhaps, I'm used to it and don't even think about putting fx with heavy latencies in auxes/busses (?)

However, I'm shure sooner or later there'll be full PDC in Logic as well. I think, it is just a matter of ressources, priorities and project compatibility.

best
Wolfgang

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:29 pm

Its the number one thing I hear people say about the v7 release and I don't really understand it either. I'm still on 5.51 here and I have an older Nuendo license I could easily sidegrade to Sx2 (or 3) if I suddenly found the burning desire to have full PDC. However my experience watching my friends upgrade to Sx2 led me to believe there's at least a 20-30% performance hit from PDC with typical work patterns (use of plugins & groups etc) within Sx. The audio engines are not the same but I suspect that a similar thing would occur in Logic.

Also Logic isn't exactly 'sample accurate' with much of its operations:
http://www.revolver.co.nz/logic/latency.html

And yet I still use it...imagine that.

I chalk it up to marketing btw...features drive upgrades but not always workflow.

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:22 pm

The audio engines are not the same but I suspect that a similar thing would occur in Logic.

depends on the implementation, but I think the bigger problem is, that the playback doesn't start that immedeatly anymore, because the internal delay has to be recalculated everytime, you hit play (which happens now, too, but so fast, one doesn't recognize it).

Also Logic isn't exactly 'sample accurate' with much of its operations:
http://www.revolver.co.nz/logic/latency.html

he measures the (not to logic reported) input+output latency of his soundcard. Because many soundcard drivers report a wrong value, there was a setting added in 6.3.2., where you can adjust this. However, changing this setting doesn't make sense, if you aren't shure, what you finally measured.
Most people people don't even recognize this issue.
In Logic 5.5.1 you can adjust this to a certain degree with the ASIO Buffer delay parameters in the audio driver page 2.
The other things, he mentions, are just based on the latency of his soundcard again, which he set and we all know, that beside scope/pro tools any native rig introduces latency, because it uses buffers.
That's why we love scope, don't we ?

So Logic IS sample accurate, it is just, that some soundcard drivers report wrong values to the host.
Any other host will have the same problem in these regards.

And yet I still use it...imagine that.

me, too. 5.5.1 on WinXP and Logic7 on a PowerBook

I chalk it up to marketing btw...features drive upgrades but not always workflow.

indeed, but the workflow in 7 is soo much better than in any previous version, because there are many little things improved, which aren't worth mentioning because of this marketing hype ...
or does anybody use 16 insert slots for one track or over 250 audio tracks at the same time ? not me ..

uhm, seems, I have too much time at moment; writing that much is completely unusual for me

best
Wolfgang

valis · Post by **valis** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:39 am

On 2004-10-01 18:22, wolf wrote:

fast, one doesn't recognize it).
Also Logic isn't exactly 'sample accurate' with much of its operations:
http://www.revolver.co.nz/logic/latency.html
he measures the (not to logic reported) input+output latency of his soundcard. Because many soundcard drivers report a wrong value, there was a setting added in 6.3.2., where you can adjust this. However, changing this setting doesn't make sense, if you aren't shure, what you finally measured.
Most people people don't even recognize this issue.
In Logic 5.5.1 you can adjust this to a certain degree with the ASIO Buffer delay parameters in the audio driver page 2.
The other things, he mentions, are just based on the latency of his soundcard again, which he set and we all know, that beside scope/pro tools any native rig introduces latency, because it uses buffers.
That's why we love scope, don't we ?

So Logic IS sample accurate, it is just, that some soundcard drivers report wrong values to the host.
Any other host will have the same problem in these regards.

True he's measuring the 'real-world' latency vs. the reported buffer size. Also this applies to every sequencer and not just Logic (which is something that Sx2 users should be aware of as well). I have even measured the latency when routing via all my analog (converters) and digital i/o (adat, aes/ebu & spdif) so that I can adjust for any discrepencies should they occur (sometimes I route from logic out the hammerfall & process in the pulsar with interesting modular banks then re-combine that with the 'dry' signal by routing to the same d/a output...etc.)

Anyway my point is that PDC is a feature that has become a 'buzzword' and non-XTC using Creamware users have other sources of latency aside that they should be aware of...so its not the end-all that it promises to be (though it definately makes life easier for UAD-1/Powercore/XTC users).