Latency issues with ASIO vs. Mixer

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:25 pm

i have latency/syncing issues with my cw synths and vsti's.
they arent syncing perfectlly together and i cant figure out whats wrong!

i use Logic 5.5.1 in PC, and have my my routing setup like this in SFP:
seq source - cw synths and midi out
midi in - seq dest
cw synths - ASIO dest (a channel for each synth..)
ASIO source - mixer
mixer out - ASIO dest.

when i plug my synths in the mixer i get perfectly syncing tho..?
only when plugged into ASIO dest i get these syncing problems..
what to do..what do to.. hrm hrm..

help?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:24 pm

do you mix and monitor in SFP or in Logic ?
From the SFP mixer's viewpoint the CWA synths are latency free, but the VSTIs have a latency of at least the ULLI settings or multiplies of this, depending on your routing.

You could have a VSTI synth sent to SFP (1 latency unit) to be reverbed by masterverb (no latency) sent back to Logic (1 LU), processed by a VSTI distortion and sent back to the SFP mixer for monitoring (1 LU) = total latency is your ULLI value x 3.

It's an absurd example, but illustrates the process. Normally the difference is adjusted by respective track offsets.

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-09-09 18:25 ]</font>

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:16 am

i mix in logic.
so i cant escape this out of sync delay then?
i thought that, routing cw synths in the aux channels, would make logic itself put ulli latency on the audio channels also, and therefor make the same latency on everything?

i dont want to use XTC mode, but soon it seems like i have no other choice..

i cant make music when my stuff is out of sync. =/

Post by **garyb** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:41 am

if you're talking about using midi on a synth and recording that synth, the latency is minimal if you use 13ms ulli or lower. about the same as hardware.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:45 am

i dont really understand you there gary b, i explained pretty detailed before what the problem was. and yes, i am using midi of course.

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:57 am

Why do you work this way round?
I suggest reversing the whole set-up:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=13&3
BUMP
Cheers

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:07 am

hm..isnt that exactly what i have done already? but in logic.
i am trying this out in sx also right now..

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:10 am

as this:

http://hem.passagen.se/mr.sputnik/scope/sfp.JPG

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:31 am

But why not plug the Scope synths into the micro mixer, and use Scope FX etc. You can then just record anything you want to apply Logic FX to into Logic ?
Have you got the STM 24/48 mixer ?.......this really is the heart of my set-up, and it's really easy to set up BUSS outs to record anything into your sequencer at the flick of a switch.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:34 am

i want to use logic efx on my stuff. for the time beeing anyway..
i believe i have routed everything ok, but i cant get rith of this out of sync delay. argh....................

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:37 am

Best off recording parts then, but don't dismiss the Scope stuff.......there's a whole new world out there !

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:39 am

ah yes i know.. but i have just got the card, i want this basic setup to work firt. and no, i cant work with music if i have to record everything all the time. thats just annoying.. i got 10dsp's i want to use.

its really shameful if creamware havent made this little thing to work? i mean.. how else can one work with cw synths? dont tell me everyone is recording all the time????

its the same out of sync in cubase sx also i noticed now.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:41 am

funny thing is.. that if i plug the synths into the mixer instead, then they get synced.
but then again, i need to have every synth in a seperate channel in logic/cubase so... thats not an option either.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:44 am

if i move all my notes 1/64 behind the notes from my vsti's..everything sound about right. quite synced... heh..

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:48 am

It's not that funny if you think about it.......what you've got is a loop - just look at your project.
It's not a bug - it's Logic that's imposing the delay.
My advice.....go to the Devices pages in Planet Z and explore some of the great plugins for Scope. Use Logic & Scope in a complementary way.........together you can do anything

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:51 am

eh..what are you talking about?

it doesnt matter if i try out a bunvh of plugins etc.. i have a lot of them already.

i must fix this delay thingy.. if not i could just as well sell this card. its no use to me if its not syncing right.

seems that no one have an answer to this problem either so..

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:53 am

if logic is imposing the delay, the cubase sx also does the same thing. i have the same problem there.

but there MUST be a way around this? i find it hard to believe that its suppose to work like this? either everyone is sitting and moving all of their notes 1/64 or they record everything they do.
those a 2 ways i refuse to work with.

so please, anyone? help me out here?

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:08 am

The problem is neither with Logic nor Cubase nor Creamware, its the routing setup you're trying to use and it will be inherent in any digital system when you move between multiple devices in realtime (even adat ports introduce a small delay due to their buffers).

There are ways to offset your midi tracks assigned to the external synths so that they will be in 'sync' for what you're doing but as others suggest its much easier solved by rethinking your routing. The reality is that running SFP.exe as a separate app with the audio handled in its environment is much closer to having an external device that just happens to be conveniently located on your PCI bus. If you truly want to explore mixing entirely inside of your software check out the XTC mode, but you're missing out on a world of flexibility. Good luck learning, its really all that is required.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:13 am

ah yes, i guess i am forced to use XTC mode then. i really want to work in this way..because of the routing possibilities etc.. but then again, if i cant get synced, whats the point?

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:14 am

and believe me, i have reallt rethinked this situation a lot, otherwise i wouldnt ask for help on planetz, where all the pro's are.