Help .... For a 5 Year Creamware User

kamakiriad · Post by **kamakiriad** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:12 pm

I have just registered for this forum on the advice of the wonderful Ali from Creamware North America.... I purchased the PowerSampler Card at L&M in Toronto in 1999. I used it quite splendidly with its original 'architecture' for 3 years, until I learned that Creamware had changed over to the Luna software ---> at this point I changed over to Luna and used it succesfully until March of this year (2004 anno domini) when I upgraded my computer to a Pentium 4 2.8GHZ with aan ASUS P4P800..... At this point I decided to upgrade to the SFP 'architecture'. Suddenly, things have gone very sideways.... I have had no problems recording audio, although I experienced crashes--- which I hadn't experienced EVER in my 5 years of using the card --> this software seems to be defintely less stable than what I am used to. BUT!! the real probelms came when I tried to utilize MIDI. This has caused gigantic system lock-ups 100% of the time . I have done all of the tweaks from that FBI site, as well as some of the stuff I have found on this forum.... I did everything the apparently quite friendly kensuguro suggested but i cannot get this thing to not freeze up....

I am clearly not as computer knowlegeable as just about everyone here -- although my heart is really in the right place -- so I am fairly certain there are basic descriptions of my setup and the tactics I have used that are intrinsic to being able to offer me assistance, but please, if possible.... help! (??) !

Post by **hubird** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:21 pm

it would help if you'd describe your problem...

ScofieldKid · Post by **ScofieldKid** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:59 pm

Would help to know, all cards you have in your system and at what slots.

I assume you are running Winows XP ?

And it would help to know what you have tried.

Sometimes you can resolve these things by going one step at a time. Some of the obvious things that might be messing you up are:

1) additional sound cards in the system
2) network cards
3) ACPI enabled in the BIOS

After that it gets tricky. I would bet that you already tried juggling the cards around in the slots.

Might help if you a) uninstalled drivers in the System Control Paenl, under Devices. Then shut down the system, take out the card and reboot. Power off the system. Then install the card again, force it to use a driver location that you provide.

None of this is fun, but it might help.

If you have an "Onboard Game Controller" or
"Onboard Audio" on that motherboard, you might try disabling that as well.

Good luck with all that.

Post by **garyb** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:29 am

we may need to start from scratch...

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:17 am

And I was so shure, that powersampler was a 2000 thing!!

kamakiriad · Post by **kamakiriad** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:32 pm

Hey, thanks for the responses.

ScofieldKid: Is a modem considered a network card? At this point, that is about all that I think is in there (i had a scsi controller but took it out it in the search for stability).

I have moved the card around and it is currently in slot 3.

Is this ACPI thing a lemon for sure? I am picking up conflicting info on this but at this point I do have it enabled.

Again, thanks.

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:42 am

some in teresting news re: XP and ACPI

It would appear that service pack two has a newly implmented ACPI. The IRQ assignments are now way more sensible.

We just loaded up the new studio computer with it last night, took a look at the IRQ assignments and went, "well, I couldn't have done it better myself". And there were 28 IRQ assignments!

I guess someone at microsoft realized it was pretty awful the way it was.

So you could try downloading that!

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodte ... xpsp2.mspx

I concur that re-installing drivers never hurts, as does checking for driver updates and installing them.

Best of luck!

R

Post by **garyb** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:42 pm

as well as making sure you have the latest bios.

Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:09 pm

Hi,

let us begin by what IRQ your card is taking

to find this out.
right mouse click on my computer
select hardware tab
then device manager
the view resources by type
Click the + on IRQ
list for us
what IRQ is the PS is ON
What else is on that IRQ

Also What IRQ is the video card and what else on that IRQ.

Other users may ask other questions.
I am assuming your technical knowledge is very limited to where is what. We will try to help get you up there.

Since the original powersampler the software has been more stable with Scope 4.0.
However you have new OS (winXP) requires lots of tweaking and turning off services that you don't use and Also you got new system that may have lots of build in devices that may conflict with the DSP card or the AGP card.

kamakiriad · Post by **kamakiriad** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:42 pm

Thanks alot to everyone for their help...
Here is my sysyem information (i will admit that i don't understand a fair bit of what follows)
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~2998 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 080009, 11/6/2003
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:WINDOWS
System Directory C:WINDOWSSystem32
Boot Device DeviceHarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920)"
Total Physical Memory 1,024.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 743.20 MB
Total Virtual Memory 3.40 GB
Available Virtual Memory 2.97 GB
Page File Space 2.40 GB
Page File C:pagefile.sys

Here are the IRQ's
IRQ 0 System timer OK
IRQ 1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard OK
IRQ 3 Communications Port (COM2) OK
IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK
IRQ 6 Standard floppy disk controller OK
IRQ 8 System CMOS/real time clock OK
IRQ 9 Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System OK
IRQ 11 Intel(R) 82801EB SMBus Controller - 24D3 OK
IRQ 11 Multimedia Audio Controller OK
IRQ 12 Microsoft PS/2 Mouse OK
IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
IRQ 14 Primary IDE Channel OK
IRQ 15 Secondary IDE Channel OK
IRQ 16 RADEON 9200 SE OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) 82801EB Ultra ATA Storage Controllers OK
IRQ 20 Intel(R) 537EP Modem OK
IRQ 23 Creamware DSP-Board OK

I have about everything I have come across here except for disabling ACPI ... I will do this, but as somewhat of a dullard relative to these wars of attrition, is there someplace someone can direct me to get a handle on re-installing Windoews XP? (i have tried and not found much...)

I really appreciate the help you guys give... i must admit being quite surprised at the level of effort that is required just to get back to a level of stability that I was used to -- let alone utilize all things you assume will be available in an 'upgrade'

:) ---> i thought i had some success last night when i disabled the USB port, but after 20 minutes of midi, everything locked up and ended up sounding alot like Billy Cobham's kick drum (ie a loop at 240BPM).... and today everything locks up after much shorter durations --> Note that i am not even at the point of using Cubase yet ......

Post by **garyb** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:19 pm

cubase does seem prone to this with 875 chipsets and scope. logic and sonar don't do this(i use cubase with NO problems on 2 machines and have seen others work fine, so...) try this(bottom of page):
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... rt=200&219

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:01 am

w0o! irq 23!

But yeah, definitely try turning off ACPI. Does wonders!

As for re-installing XP, the trick is mostly to press F5 or F8 (I can't remember ^_^ pressing both works fine heh) when it asks you to press F6 to load RAID/SCSI drivers. It won't indicate the F5/F8 choice at all. Once you've done this, you will get a little window (its like 2 lines high, kind of misleading) displayed asking you to choose the type of installation, among which are ACPI (at the top, scroll up) and Standard PC. Standard PC is what you will want to choose. If you don't do the F5/F8 thing, it does ACPI by default.

Turning it off on an installed XP should work fine tho. Better try this than go thru the whole XP installation circus (just did this yesterday ^_^)

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:16 am

The VERY first thing I would do would be to go into the BIOS and disable anything you don't use:

On 2004-09-09 22:42, kamakiriad wrote:
IRQ 3 Communications Port (COM2) OK
IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK
IRQ 11 Multimedia Audio Controller OK
IRQ 20 Intel(R) 537EP Modem OK

After that, I would suggest looking into some of the tweaks that you can perform to the PCI latency of your Radeon card. First start by trying other settings for your BIOS pci latency setting. After that an app like SiSandra or NvTweak that can access the latency setting for each board can be used to check the Radeon's setting and lower it. Unfortunately AT typically sets the latency to over 240 (with 256 being the highest) and this can cause many problems for systems, especially when you scale up the amount of usage you are putting your dsps through...

Then if all else fails and you still get midi lockups you can try disabling ACPI, but since it honestly hasn't been necessary since XP & modern APIC 2.0 motherboards came out a simple midi filter to filter out active sensing might work better (assuming your master controller sends this).

kamakiriad · Post by **kamakiriad** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:41 pm

Once again thanks for all the help .. I have tried almost everything that has been suggested here to me save for checking PCI latency of my Radeon card (as i dont know alot about this) and the re-installation of Windows XP in order to disable ACPI (i am honestly quite daunted by the spectre of doing this, perhaps based upon my inexperience with working with operating systems) ---> still the system locks up.... BUT!! I did have an interesting occurrence tonight. I left the Scope running while i got on the internet to post here and the system locked-up -- which it has NEVER done save for when I am sending midi information--
so I am really curious about why this would happen (NOTE that the midi contoller was still hooked up). Could this be that 'active sensing' issue that Valis pointed out?

My midi controller is a Roland GI-10 (guitar-to-midi converter).

I have been using this for over 5 years and never experienced a problem. My question: what is a midi filter??

Also:
1) Does anyone know of a place to get info on re-installing windows xp? (i have looked unsuccessfully).
2) Is updating your BIOS a tricky thing? There appears to regular updates to this on the ASUS website, but (AGAIN) I don't know alot about this...
3) I have disabled the multimedia audio controller, but it still shows up as taking an IRQ, whereas after i disabled the communication ports IRQ 3 and 4 opened up.
4) Is it a bad thing that the card is on IRQ 23?? as a person who thinks sequentially, i can't help but think that IRQ 23 is alot less smashing than IRQ 3 ...... is my concern here unfounded?

I am definitely learning about the guts of a computer on the fly these days, so i hope i am not coming off as a guy who is not trying my best to get this card working --> as noted, I have used Creamware for years AND before that I used a Turtle Beach Pinnacle card for 2 years quite happily....

Thanks in advance for any further assistance.

Post by **garyb** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:23 pm

updating the bios is easy and a good idea. reinstalling xp is very easy and there are plenty here who could take you step by step. sometimes it helps to connect the midi controller AFTER starting scope.

oldaudio · Post by **oldaudio** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:49 am

kamakiriad : I was told that you must select "standard PC" by pressing F6 during installation of Windows. You cannot let the computer do it's own thing and assign "virtual" PCI IDs. AFAIK, slot 23 is not acceptable.
Durff

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: oldaudio on 2004-09-21 10:51 ]</font>

Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:13 pm

old audio, it is F5 you need to press to get to the page where you choose standard mode.

F6 is to install Scsi device.

Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:41 pm

kamakiriad:

Few steps to get you going

1. Put the winXP CD in cd drive and reboot you PC then press any key to boot from CD.

2. Drivers will start to be copied and keep watching the screen and when prompted to press F6 to install Scsi device. this is your cue to press F5 a couple of time and then another screen show up with 2 choices. Standard or ACPI mode.

Pick standard mode and continue .

Win XP will install.

2. Update WinXP with all the (SPI) critical updates.

3. install the Scope 4.0 version (choose the Scope Professional version) since you have some samplers. Driver and software.

4.now it is time to see what IRQ the card has picked. Proper IRQ are (5/9/10/11)

Your powersampler and your video card should each pick one IRQ if the above.
Both the powersampler and the video card must not share with other devices for smooth operation of the platform.

in the bios you will decide what to turn off
you won't ruin anything. keep a log on a piece of paper in case you need to come back and turn it on.

The most important are things to turn off in the bios are.

1. Hyper threading must be turned off
2. disable plug n play
3. Disable the onboard sound card
4. disable all USB devices that you are not using.

this will allow you to free some setting.

If you see your powersampler is sharing IRQ. simply move it to the Next PCI card and check the setting again.

Don't use the 1st PCI slot next to the AGP card and also don't use the very last PCI slot in the mainboard.

if you decide to do this please post the result so we can continue to get this system to the way you want it.

SL1200MK4 · Post by **SL1200MK4** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:03 am

Well, I got a very similar setup with very similar problems..

I only have two cards, one 9800 pro on AGP slot, and I have my pulsar (the 4DSP first gen one) on PCI slot 1/2 and had problem with both slots...

I placed it to the PCI slot 4, then everything worked fine ever after.

So maybe you had wanna try to move your card to PCI slot 4, that is the two one if you cound from the bottom...

I have the Asus P4P800 E-deluxe motherboard. Which is very similar to your setup.

I didn't install it as standard PC, and I don't think that you should unless it's really that last resort.

I did however disabled both hyper threading and the onboard firewire controller.

I don't know if I should enable HT or not at this point... cuz I don't wanna have everything setted up and then fack it up again...

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:16 am

BTW, you can switch from ACPI to Standard PC without having to re-install. You just need to go in the device manager, and reinstall the ACPI Computer drivers. Choose from list, get Standard PC. Apparently it might be a bit glitchy, so make a backup/ghost/stuff first. But it might be something to try if you don't want to re-install everything. I just re-installed everything not long ago, and within 24 hours (not of continuous work, mind you

), my system was pretty much all up and running. It takes some preparation (backing up SFP folders, etc.) but its really not that bad.