.. best mastering limiter to use after Optimaster?

VenuZ · Post by **VenuZ** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:56 am

Which is the best limiter to use after my Optimaster? From what I read around the native version of Waves L2 (what about L3?) it's not so good... Sonic TimeWorks Master compressor is really so good? I'm considering it, and it cost only 149$...
I have also a PoCo card.. What about the VERY expensive Sony Inflator? It should worth to wait get some more money for it?

Or maybe.. What about a good native plugin?
Thanx in advance to all, as usual

gab

AndreD · Post by **AndreD** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:57 am

steinberg loudness maximizer, to my ears..

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:37 am

Hi.
Try the one from DaDev.With only 69$ u can get that great compressor/limiter and a lot of other things.
After that u can try the one from Timeworks but u must buy the complete bundle at a bigger price than the dadev subscription...
Try here : http://www.dadev.com/
See Ya!

http://www.kwild.com
http://www.balentia.com

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:35 am

I don't mind Waves L2, although your tastes may differ for dithering (ie, you may want to dither with another plugin). I tend to use it sparingly however, with 2-4db input threshold and -.2 to -.3 output limiting. Sometimes I use ARC sometimes I hand set release for a bit of breath...

I find any maximizer/limiter tends to wreak havok if pushed too hard, generally removing any 'warmth' and reducing things to a crunchy hf-enhanced mess.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:09 am

On 2004-09-03 08:35, valis wrote:
...I find any maximizer/limiter tends to wreak havok if pushed too hard, generally removing any 'warmth' and reducing things to a crunchy hf-enhanced mess.

very good characterization - imho, as I don't really qualify as an expert in this domain

I've applied the STW MasteringComp to a couple of 'tradional' analog recordings to get more familiar with it.
At low listening levels the STW can be very impressive in adding punch and fake 'detail'.
But if one gradually moves up the original master in volume, it will 'open' it's sound, while the 'maximized' version narrows and starts to get annoying and stressing ears.

At least that's my impression if you just move levels up carelessly - it may be the desired result for certain tracks, though

If applied with some thoughts the STW is a fairly comfortable way to give an already detailed mix just that little extra punch, but as mentioned it's a narrow path.

cheers, Tom

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:53 pm

Hi,

I wouldn't use a limiter after the optimaster.
Beside hard brick limiters tend to "adjust" the lows to a degree, I don't like, everything is already in optimaster.
Everything you might have gained in optimaster sound quality wise, will be removed by the limiter, so you have to readjust the optimaster (at least this is my experience).
Better put an eq before the optimaster, to adjust the sound, so you can concentrate on raising the perceived loudness in optimaster.
Finally listen to your results on a really bad playback chain at louder volume, then you know, what I mean

best
Wolfgang

bbrian · Post by **bbrian** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:33 pm

The new Precision Series Limiter for the UAD-1 card is stunning. This is the only software limiter I have used that leaves the bass warm and untouched, and the top end silky smooth. It it VERY transparent too, and has several modes of operation, can be forced to pump nicely, and has a nice big metering system based on the K-system (K-14) as proposed by Bob Katz.

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:45 pm

This is the chain i use for the final master with SFP :

optimaster+psy q+Timeworks hard master

I use to disable the auto normalize feature of optimaster.

In the next weeks i try to test seriusly the Dadev A23ST in place of the timeworks.

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:56 pm

I use optimaster, followed by psyq.

the psyq often has very little to do in the eq department, but can boost the mix nicely.

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:14 am

Optimaster with normalizer turned on, followed by PsyQ.

Great mix results!

VenuZ · Post by **VenuZ** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:54 am

I spent some hours in this weekend to make some test about Limiter and Maximazier plugins.
I have tested the Waves L2, L3, Sony Inflator for PowerCore and Steinberg and Loudness Maximizer.
And, for me, the winner is, without any doubt, the Sony's one.
Waves L2 and L3 add a lot of high enhancement and, generally, the sound loose warmth in the bass frequencies. If not well applied, the results is a "crunchy hf-enhanced mess", like valis said

Also I sincerely haven't find any significant differences between L2 and L3...
I don't really like the Steinberg's one: it's not clear and, to my ears, it make some distorsion in the low frequencies.
The Sony Inflator, instead, is really really good. Basses are much present comparing to others, transparent and warm and it leaves high-end freq more natural.
The only thing I don't like is.. the price

Btw I want now to try SonicTimework for SFP and maybe, like Wolf suggest, using only Optimaster also for limiting.. I will let you know my results

Thanx for your replies

gab

AndreD · Post by **AndreD** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:30 am

Hi,
you should not "overuse" the steinberg lm!
Try <b> style @ - 3</b>...
Best,
Andre

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AndreD on 2004-09-06 06:31 ]</font>

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:52 am

ciao

venuz look at private message

ale

Post by **hubird** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:20 am

I never had problems with L2, no eq change, nothing.
I guess I stay within critical borders (threshold and peak cutting max -4).
(I always do a fast A-B comparing, with equalled volumes, to be sure).
Thanks for testing, I'll do an extra check next time

valis · Post by **valis** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:01 pm

I didn't mean to suggest that the problems were part of L2/L3. Almost all limiters and 'maximizers' (non-valve) that I've had experience with tend to have a similar effect on the sound. In fact my RNC also exhibits the same sort of 'HF crunch' when I use it with near-limiting ratios and push the the threshold/gain structure to get extreme amounts of gain.

Basically I think that the HF 'crunchiness' is more a result of trying to get too much gain (britney square wave anyone?) rather than the fault of the better processors out there. I can DEFINATELY get the same thing out of Optimaster if I'm not setting the device for subtle improvements...

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:54 am

Voxengo Elephant... Not expensive but unbeatable for limiting works... Better results than with Waves L2...

Post by **hubird** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:23 am

On 2004-09-09 05:54, Grok wrote:
Voxengo Elephant... Not expensive but unbeatable for limiting works... Better results than with Waves L2...

could be...but only PC

VenuZ · Post by **VenuZ** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:30 pm

today I got some free time and I spent some hours to make test using some maximizer plugins with a spectrum analyzer, printing the results and comparing it...
I noticed that all the plugins add dbs in all the frequency range.. It seems that to increase volume the easiest way is to add db on frequencies.. That's why we can hear distorsion and lack of basses after limiting: most of these plugs add a lot in the high, often more than in the bass.. In some cases i got something like +8/10db.. And this increase of db in the bass often causes a smashing sound in the low freqs.
Btw... Looking in the analyzer the worst plugins are Loudness Maximizer from Steinberg (but it does a lot of extra punch) and Voxengo Elephant (expecially the last is modifying the freq curve a lot...).
The absolutely best I tried is Sony Inflator for PoCo: it's the only one which leave the curve pratically inalterated, adding also more loud (in rms) than the others.
The second one is TimeWorks Mastering, also ff I noticed that it seems to be not so precise in both left and right channel.. But it has definitely the best price value.
Waves L2 and L3 has exactly the same response (?), but I haven't tried the L3 Multimaximizer.
So... Now the question is... What to buy?

I honestly thing that I will start to save moneys for Sony's one, but I also think that all of this it's only differences we can read only in paper... So, as usual, the best thing is to use our ears and try to judge by ourself

gab

P.S.: if i wrote some bullshits, lemme know

P.S.2: excuse my bad english

VenuZ · Post by **VenuZ** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:33 pm

.. I forgot to tell you that the Timeworks I talk about is for Pulsar.. I tested also the dx version which is incredibly worst than the Pulsar's one...

gab

medway · Post by **medway** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:00 pm

On 2004-09-11 19:33, VenuZ wrote:
.. I forgot to tell you that the Timeworks I talk about is for Pulsar.. I tested also the dx version which is incredibly worst than the Pulsar's one...

gab

Interesting. On some of the pro audio boards, like Gearslutz the timeworks dx version is said to be the best limiter there is. This came in the wake of people commentingon the new UAD plug.