I am going crazy with this issue, I tried everything but can't get it solved.
Here is my system:
1) PulsarII
2) PulsarII+
3) LunaII + I/O BOX
If everything stay connected to the same card, everything is dead quite, a real pleisure.
If by any chance some cable routings make a kind of "bridge" between the I/O box and any of the cards input or output (including the Luna), I hear all the digital activities of my PC (mouse movement, HD, windows, calculation etc etc..), like suddenly evrything gets amplified by an antenna ??!?
Any one solved this kind of problem ?
Thanks for your help.
PS : this is not a PC PSU problem.
I hear my PC !! Noise please help me ...
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Nestor
- Posts: 6688
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
I've never heard of this particular problem. It is difficult to guess what is it, without more information, but I think it may be:
*A problem with your Power Suply. It is known that bad power supplyes are noise. But you say the noise comes and goes, depending on how you use your system and how boards are linked to each other, so there is little probabiliby for this. Nevertheless, with THREE bords, and particularly if you have more than one HD, you MUST have more than 400 Watts in your Power Suply, and hopefully, a good, stable one, which gives you stable current all the time.
*Luck of proper shield for your case. Your case, using Creamware cards, SHOULD be shielded agains interferences.
I am perhaps, of little help, I hope you find the solution soon. But please, post more details of your problem here.
*A problem with your Power Suply. It is known that bad power supplyes are noise. But you say the noise comes and goes, depending on how you use your system and how boards are linked to each other, so there is little probabiliby for this. Nevertheless, with THREE bords, and particularly if you have more than one HD, you MUST have more than 400 Watts in your Power Suply, and hopefully, a good, stable one, which gives you stable current all the time.
*Luck of proper shield for your case. Your case, using Creamware cards, SHOULD be shielded agains interferences.
I am perhaps, of little help, I hope you find the solution soon. But please, post more details of your problem here.
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interloper
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: amsterdam
- Contact:
Hi guys, thanks for your replies 
@interlooper : my monitors are not connected to the XLR out of my PII+, but I did unplugged then from my amp just to see and I still had the noise (using headphones).
@Nestor : I have 4 HDs, 2 CD-rom, 1 network card, but I use a Seasonic Super Tornado 400W which can deliver up to 450W, I took it cause I read they are amongs the best for delivering power to demanding systems.
But here is an interesing test I just did :
I plugged a cable (RCA-JACK) to one of the I/O BOX input (RCA), then when I touch the ground pin of the "power plug" with the "+" of the JACK (the top) I hear the PC again in the same way ???
going crazy ...
@interlooper : my monitors are not connected to the XLR out of my PII+, but I did unplugged then from my amp just to see and I still had the noise (using headphones).
@Nestor : I have 4 HDs, 2 CD-rom, 1 network card, but I use a Seasonic Super Tornado 400W which can deliver up to 450W, I took it cause I read they are amongs the best for delivering power to demanding systems.
But here is an interesing test I just did :
I plugged a cable (RCA-JACK) to one of the I/O BOX input (RCA), then when I touch the ground pin of the "power plug" with the "+" of the JACK (the top) I hear the PC again in the same way ???
going crazy ...
Hi
I once had interference problems and they disappeared when I replaced my computer case. Sounds like you are creating loop because the screen on your Z cable is connected between you I/O box and PC then you are adding another connection with are other cable.
Why do you need a cable between the I/O box and your other I/Os? Surely you can connect them in the software if you need to.
Regards
Kenf
I once had interference problems and they disappeared when I replaced my computer case. Sounds like you are creating loop because the screen on your Z cable is connected between you I/O box and PC then you are adding another connection with are other cable.
Why do you need a cable between the I/O box and your other I/Os? Surely you can connect them in the software if you need to.
Regards
Kenf
it might help to plug in the powerplug of the A16 in the reverse position - otherwise Kenf is pretty close imho.
Both shielding from the units interconnection and the computercase.
The paint prevents proper connection with ground and if you have an alloy box that material can be a very bad conductor due to oxidation.
good luck, Tom
Both shielding from the units interconnection and the computercase.
The paint prevents proper connection with ground and if you have an alloy box that material can be a very bad conductor due to oxidation.
good luck, Tom
You might try searching on "mouse" and "computer" and "noise".
It seems to be a common problem not only with SFP.
Good grounding is very important. Just because you plug into a wall outlet with an earth doesn't mean it is correctly earthed.
A good ref is:-
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
Good luck!
It seems to be a common problem not only with SFP.
Good grounding is very important. Just because you plug into a wall outlet with an earth doesn't mean it is correctly earthed.
A good ref is:-
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
Good luck!
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cannonball
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: italia
This remains a common problem. Yes, if you do a search here, you will probably find more information on the subject - including quite a few threads from me.
About a year, year and a half ago, I went through a rather long, and costly, process to eliminate all the noise from my system. I tried everything you can possibly imagine. I even had an electrician come in a rewire my AC circuits. I'll bet I spent close to $3K chasing after the problem. I replaced the PC case, power supply, mouse, motherboard, monitor (going to an LCD monitor had a dramatic effect but didn't cure the problem entirely).
Two things seemed to have a major impact:
1) I cross-graded to a Pulsar Z-Link board. For some odd reason, using the Z-Link cables instead of the ADAT optic cables had a dramatic impact on noise reduction. Also thought the Z-Link connect sounded better.
2) I bought 3 or 4 of the Ebtech Hum Eliminators and put them in-line wherever there was an audio connection from my mixer to the PC.
My noise problem was reduced to almost nothing. I can still hear a tiny bit in the background if I crank the volume to ear splitting levels but I rarely listen at those volumes so for me, the problem is not an issue.
I tried lifting grounds on the cables, AC adapters, etc. These didn't seem to have an impact on the problem. I even bought a rack-mount Furman balanced AC source. Nothing seemed to work.
Try all options and see what works and what doesn't. Definitely try the Ebtech hum eliminators. Have patience. Good luck!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: krizrox on 2004-02-14 07:44 ]</font>
About a year, year and a half ago, I went through a rather long, and costly, process to eliminate all the noise from my system. I tried everything you can possibly imagine. I even had an electrician come in a rewire my AC circuits. I'll bet I spent close to $3K chasing after the problem. I replaced the PC case, power supply, mouse, motherboard, monitor (going to an LCD monitor had a dramatic effect but didn't cure the problem entirely).
Two things seemed to have a major impact:
1) I cross-graded to a Pulsar Z-Link board. For some odd reason, using the Z-Link cables instead of the ADAT optic cables had a dramatic impact on noise reduction. Also thought the Z-Link connect sounded better.
2) I bought 3 or 4 of the Ebtech Hum Eliminators and put them in-line wherever there was an audio connection from my mixer to the PC.
My noise problem was reduced to almost nothing. I can still hear a tiny bit in the background if I crank the volume to ear splitting levels but I rarely listen at those volumes so for me, the problem is not an issue.
I tried lifting grounds on the cables, AC adapters, etc. These didn't seem to have an impact on the problem. I even bought a rack-mount Furman balanced AC source. Nothing seemed to work.
Try all options and see what works and what doesn't. Definitely try the Ebtech hum eliminators. Have patience. Good luck!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: krizrox on 2004-02-14 07:44 ]</font>
Hi to all, and thank you very much for helping !
I did a search before posting, but the previous answers against pc digital noise were aiming towards a faulty PSU, which I think , as stated, does not concern my system.
"Why do you need a cable between the I/O box and your other I/Os? "
I do not connect them directly, there is a device in between (2 channels tube preamp) which I use with an analog patch bay to warm up the sound for recording.
Anyway, I thing the "ground loop" is probably the reason of my problem, and correct me if I am wrong, but creating a "bridge" between 2 cards within the same PC will always create a ground loop, right ?
I have already spent so much money in new PSU, new PC case, noise isolation, super shielded cable etc .. so I think I will try what krizrox suggested ie : buying a Ebtech hum eliminators.
I read a bit more about it, and learned that those devices do break ground loops.
And like I wrote in my 1st message about the antenna effect, here is a what they wright about the Ebtech :
"These groundloops act like radio antennae picking up hum and noise".
I did a last test to try and confirm that :
I have a JP-8000 connected to my PulsarII analog IN ONLY, and hear the same PC activities coming from the synth. I then disconnected the synth from the ground pin only ... and that noise dissapeared completly !! and this phenomenon occurs whether the synth is switched "on" or "off".
So if I understand right, "ground loops" can cause 2 side effects :
1) Hum (50 to 60 Hz)
2) antennae effects
Seems like I do not suffer from symptoms 1) but 2).
The thing is I can't find those device for sale in Europe ...
Thank you again for all your ansers and help.
Cheers,
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: proximo on 2004-02-14 09:42 ]</font>
I did a search before posting, but the previous answers against pc digital noise were aiming towards a faulty PSU, which I think , as stated, does not concern my system.
"Why do you need a cable between the I/O box and your other I/Os? "
I do not connect them directly, there is a device in between (2 channels tube preamp) which I use with an analog patch bay to warm up the sound for recording.
Anyway, I thing the "ground loop" is probably the reason of my problem, and correct me if I am wrong, but creating a "bridge" between 2 cards within the same PC will always create a ground loop, right ?
I have already spent so much money in new PSU, new PC case, noise isolation, super shielded cable etc .. so I think I will try what krizrox suggested ie : buying a Ebtech hum eliminators.
I read a bit more about it, and learned that those devices do break ground loops.
And like I wrote in my 1st message about the antenna effect, here is a what they wright about the Ebtech :
"These groundloops act like radio antennae picking up hum and noise".
I did a last test to try and confirm that :
I have a JP-8000 connected to my PulsarII analog IN ONLY, and hear the same PC activities coming from the synth. I then disconnected the synth from the ground pin only ... and that noise dissapeared completly !! and this phenomenon occurs whether the synth is switched "on" or "off".
So if I understand right, "ground loops" can cause 2 side effects :
1) Hum (50 to 60 Hz)
2) antennae effects
Seems like I do not suffer from symptoms 1) but 2).
The thing is I can't find those device for sale in Europe ...
Thank you again for all your ansers and help.
Cheers,
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: proximo on 2004-02-14 09:42 ]</font>
I finally found an Ebtech on Ebay for $59,00 + $21.65 shipping to France.
(shop is http://www.promusicstuff.com/, the person seems very nice).
Shame those product aren't widely distributed in Europe...
I'll let you know about the result.
Cheers,
(shop is http://www.promusicstuff.com/, the person seems very nice).
Shame those product aren't widely distributed in Europe...
I'll let you know about the result.
Cheers,
My advice is to buy one and try it first. I have three or four of them on my system. They are real life savers. They worked when more expensive options failed. More importantly, they don't seem to affect the sound quality. I was worried that these "bandaids" might have a negative effect on the sound quality.
Take everything down to one or two components and systematically start hooking things up until the problem reappears.
btw: In my case, the PC power supply had no bearing on my problem. It's possible, that for some people, upgrading to a different power supply might solve a noise problem. By upgrading to a "silent" power supply, I eliminated some ambient fan noise - but this didn't affect the electrical hum. I tried all sorts of grounding tricks inside the PC - nothing worked.
Kinda funny if you stop and think about it. We have technology sitting on our desks that would make our great-great grandparents pass out. Yet we're using the exact same shitty AC that they used when they were kids with no sign of anything better on the horizon for years to come.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: krizrox on 2004-02-14 11:14 ]</font>
Take everything down to one or two components and systematically start hooking things up until the problem reappears.
btw: In my case, the PC power supply had no bearing on my problem. It's possible, that for some people, upgrading to a different power supply might solve a noise problem. By upgrading to a "silent" power supply, I eliminated some ambient fan noise - but this didn't affect the electrical hum. I tried all sorts of grounding tricks inside the PC - nothing worked.
Kinda funny if you stop and think about it. We have technology sitting on our desks that would make our great-great grandparents pass out. Yet we're using the exact same shitty AC that they used when they were kids with no sign of anything better on the horizon for years to come.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: krizrox on 2004-02-14 11:14 ]</font>
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Nestor
- Posts: 6688
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
I once had some serious noise problems with my latter PC, the problem was very uncommon, "SPEAKERS". Speakers were too close to the scree, and somehow, even if the PC case was shielded one, the noise would occur anyway. I searched like crazy the reason, and the reason was how close the speakers were to the monitor and the CPU. When I go monitors out of the way at about 60 more centimeters, the problem desapeard.
Sorry not to have told you this before, it happend long ago and I didn't remember.
Sorry not to have told you this before, it happend long ago and I didn't remember.
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
After reading about your problems, this is what I would have tried:
Disconnect everything from your pc, and reconnect the mouse, keyboard and screen on a separate outlet. Then connect a batterypowered headphoneamplyfier to your soundcardoutput. Check that the headphoneamp is not making any contact with any metal or anything connected in your studio. Check for noise. If the noise is gone, make a direct contact where the tubething was, if noise is away, hook up that tubething you had connected(to the same poweroutlet). Check for noise. If noise back, and if the tubething is in a rack, unscrew it from the rack, and put it on a wooden surface. Check again. If noise is there, do a groundlift. If noise is there , lend some input/output transformers and connect, lift ground on all the in/outs of the sides facing the soundcards. If this doesn't cure it, I don't know.
jea
Disconnect everything from your pc, and reconnect the mouse, keyboard and screen on a separate outlet. Then connect a batterypowered headphoneamplyfier to your soundcardoutput. Check that the headphoneamp is not making any contact with any metal or anything connected in your studio. Check for noise. If the noise is gone, make a direct contact where the tubething was, if noise is away, hook up that tubething you had connected(to the same poweroutlet). Check for noise. If noise back, and if the tubething is in a rack, unscrew it from the rack, and put it on a wooden surface. Check again. If noise is there, do a groundlift. If noise is there , lend some input/output transformers and connect, lift ground on all the in/outs of the sides facing the soundcards. If this doesn't cure it, I don't know.
jea
Good luck!Thanks a lot for all your replies !!
Ok, I tried everything, took the speakers out of the room, unplugged EVERYTHING, nothing was connected to the PC any more, except the cable that goes from the I/O box to the PulsarII in, for the test purpose (cause that's the only situation where I hear the noise).
As I did not have anymore means to listen to anything, so I let cubase recording everything .... while everything was beeing unplugged .. and I replugged everything 1 by 1 ...
I listen to the recorded wave .. unfortunately, the noise was present from the beginning to the end of the operation ..
Damn !!
Ok, I tried everything, took the speakers out of the room, unplugged EVERYTHING, nothing was connected to the PC any more, except the cable that goes from the I/O box to the PulsarII in, for the test purpose (cause that's the only situation where I hear the noise).
As I did not have anymore means to listen to anything, so I let cubase recording everything .... while everything was beeing unplugged .. and I replugged everything 1 by 1 ...
I listen to the recorded wave .. unfortunately, the noise was present from the beginning to the end of the operation ..
Damn !!
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cannonball
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: italia
hi
i think i'll mail to creamware
but i've never tried only one with connection
here the problem are the z-link in/out and the pulsar analog in/out
the powerpulsar balanced doesn't give me this noise problem with all the others 2 cards connected
later i'll try if with others in/out disconnected the zlink or the pulsar i/O
have noise when i move the mouse or brownse
folders.
thanks to all for the help
ale
i think i'll mail to creamware
but i've never tried only one with connection
here the problem are the z-link in/out and the pulsar analog in/out
the powerpulsar balanced doesn't give me this noise problem with all the others 2 cards connected
later i'll try if with others in/out disconnected the zlink or the pulsar i/O
have noise when i move the mouse or brownse
folders.
thanks to all for the help
ale