Major issues with Creamware XTC

junocorn · Post by **junocorn** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:55 pm

Hey everyone. Bought a Creamware XTC a couple of days ago. Their XMAS bundle was just too good to give up on.
Anyway - it's not working properly. Say I start up a clean project in Nuendo2. Initialize a synth (eg. Bluesynth) and record something (midi). Everything will then play back just fine. If I then add eg. a Masterverb on that instrument or to the master outputs I'll hear the reverb just fine but once I press play or record in Nuendo it's as if the computer suddenly runs out of resources and semifreezes. The sound will drop in and out with a 'ring modulation' type of effect until I press the 'disable' button on that plugin and the computer 'recognizes' that I've turned off the effect. I'll turn it on again (without pressing play) and press the XTC logo to get a view on the resources and it's about 20-30%. It's definetly not due to lack of DSP resources on the XTC.

At first I thought it might be due to the fact that I also have a UAD-1 card in my computer but tonight I took that card out
and reinstalled XP completely. It didn't make any difference. Before I did that I also tried switching PCI slots to see if it would make any change. None what so ever.

Anyway. Here is a detailed description of my setup:

Motherboard: Asus A7N8x rev1.1 (latest bios)
CPU: AMD XP3000+
RAM: 1.5 GB TwinMos PC2700
GFX: GeForce4 TI4200 (8x agp, 128mb ram) connected via DVI-D to 2 Hitachi LCD monitors
Powersupply: Enermax Whisper 431W
IDE: 3 x Hard drives, 1 x dvd-burner
Soundcard: RME HDSP PCI + Multiface
USB: Maxtor external drive (for backup), Steinberg Midex8, Syncrosoft dongle
Software: Steinberg Nuendo 2.1.0.10

PCI overview:

AGP: GeForce4 TI4200
PCI1: Empty
PCI2: Creamware XTC
PCI3: UAD-1
PCI4: RME HDSP Pci (connected to a Multiface)
PcI5: Empty

*Everything* Apart from USB1.1/2.0 normal IDE are disabled on the motherboard (eg. serialport, firewire, S/ATA, floppydisk controller, etc)

Also all the latest drivers for everything (nForce2 platform drivers, nVidia detonator, soundcard, midex, etc) is installed.

Both the Rme HDSP PCI (multiface) and the Pulsar XTC card have their own irq's that aren't shared.

I figoured it might be a PCI bandwith issue but since the problem persisted after removing the UAD-1 that strikes me as rather odd. Not many
motherboards are able to compete with the A7n8x in that area. It's also pretty much become a standard for DAW usage on the AMD platform.

I really hope someone can help me overcome these issues as I really want to use those Creamware synths.

Thanks a million in advance and don't hesitate to ask me any questions if I left something out.

Kindest Regards,
CM

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: junocorn on 2003-12-17 19:32 ]</font>

junocorn · Post by **junocorn** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:45 am

I just found that the CPU actually goes trough the roof when adding more than one plugin from the XTC drawer.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:44 pm

I guess it's a battle between the RME and the XTC board when Masterverb needs access to the PCI bus (due to requesting mobo ram) and the RME insisting on the same resource to get it's data to disk.

good luck, Tom

junocorn · Post by **junocorn** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:13 pm

The RME is only streaming the data... Nothing is written to disk.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:34 pm

On 2003-12-16 22:55, junocorn wrote:
...If I then add eg. a Masterverb on that instrument or to the master outputs I'll hear the reverb just fine but once I press play or record in Nuendo it's as if the computer suddenly runs out of resources and semifreezes.

please explain the trick how it's doing that without a disk

anyway, think about from where to where this 'streaming' takes place:
any card communicates via the PCI bus with the IO system and memory of the computer and with the application.
In XTC mode that's done twice: to the DSP card and back to memory. Masterverb even needs additional access to the PCI bus for it's own processing.
I dunno how much, but is well known for that 'feature' and the preferred device to test PCI bus performance once a new mobo appears.
It almost certainly will be affected by the RME, but possibly just your latency setting is too small. Try if increasing it changes anything.

cheers, Tom

junocorn · Post by **junocorn** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:46 pm

Dear Tom,

Thank you kindly for trying to help.

I've tried all latencies and it didn't make any difference.

About recording/playing. I clearly stated that I was reffering to midi. My computer has got 1.5 GB of ram. I hardly think windows will need to access the swapdisk from initializing a couple of plugins in Nuendo.

I think my main issue here is that there isn't a clear sollution to my problem. XTC wasn't marketed as needing a special soundcard to work. If it won't work with, what is, arguebly the best soundcard on the marked; then what will it work with?

The RME card not in any way impose huge loads on the pci bus from playing back one stereo track with no inputs activated.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:43 pm

On 2003-12-18 22:46, junocorn wrote:
...I think my main issue here is that there isn't a clear sollution to my problem.

you may be right with that statement.
If you insist on certain assumptions that you can't even prove (you probably didn't write the Windows memory management or the driver of the card) you'll never track down a problem.

Of course you don't have to. Plug it in, doesn't work, remove it and everything's fine again, except your wallet...
Otherwise it pays off to be open minded and try to reduce the problem to a definete source.
I just wanted to point you in a different direction, nothing else.
It's really not the point if I'm right or wrong, or if one card is better than the other.
Everyone knows that there (can) exist a lot of incompatibilities with complex equipment.

In your case it doesn't matter at all if there is any data on the bus if the bus is locked in the wrong moment.
As long as you're collecting facts it doesn't matter which part is responsible.

You could use a different fx, like a filter of modulation (but no delay as that would be like Masterverb) and see if the same happens.

It might as well be a completely different reason, but it's always best to start with the most simple and obvious things before replugging cards or (re)install OS and software

good luck - or sell the stuff, whatever applies better

cheers, Tom