God is not great: How religion poisons everthing

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:30 pm

Your oppinions are not facts regardless of how belligerently you are presenting them, bear that in your mind.
And I see you're being a pussy and avoiding a straight answer about moses.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:51 pm

What opinions did I post?

That you said something mean - well, you got me there, that is an OPINION

Your paranoid behaviour about accusing everyone who is not atheist of being a fundamentalist christian, and accusing some people of being stardust - FACT

The limitations of science being such that proving or disproving supernatural is outside of the discipline - FACT

So, for the belligerent OPINION that you were being mean, I'm so sorry. Did I hurt your feelings? Maybe we can watch Oprah and work through our feelings.

"And I see you're being a pussy and avoiding a straight answer about moses."
You don't bring me flowers...

K gotta go now, the real world awaits. I have to track down some rumoured atheists so we can drink their blood in our fundamentalist church.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:56 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:Your oppinions are not facts regardless of how belligerently you are presenting them, bear that in your mind.

yes, you bear that in mind.

and the big bang is conjecture. no one has seen it.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:56 pm

Typically facts are supported with evidence, your facts are not.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:38 pm

you mean it's not a fact that you've never seen any big bang?
you mean it's not a fact that the math isn't perfect as far as the big bang theory goes?
you mean if i spend 5 minutes and find evidence of that, you'll give it a fair hearing?

i never said i don't think the big bang happened, i only spoke about it scientifically, something you can't do.

you are wrong.
wrong headed...
wrong thinking....
wrong.

and none of this has anything to do with the existance of god.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:15 pm

garyb wrote:

you mean it's not a fact that you've never seen any big bang?
you mean it's not a fact that the math isn't perfect as far as the big bang theory goes?
you mean if i spend 5 minutes and find evidence of that, you'll give it a fair hearing?

i never said i don't think the big bang happened, i only spoke about it scientifically, something you can't do.

you are wrong.
wrong headed...
wrong thinking....
wrong.

Again, to ask me if I've seen an event that took place 14 billions years ago is pretty stupid. Of course I have not seen it. How could I? Does that mean it didn't happen even when (real) scientists can trace the events of Big Bang down to 10 to -43 seconds before it happened and mathematical models confirm it did?

Even more idiotic is to claim that there is not proof of Big Bang because there are no (empiric) probes to prove the existence of Planck era. How the fuck does one even expect to send probes 14 billions years into the past? Only a truly fucked up moron could think of that. Just like the morons that deny the theory of evolution because there is no proof of the "primordial soup".

And the Big Bang math theory is fine (some idiots think it is "incommensurably flawed") , what you didn't understand is that science cannot describe the universe before the Plank era. But I'll consider your take on that.

DodgeIt wrote: and none of this has anything to do with the existance of god.

Your faithful followers think it does.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:26 pm

no, you think this has soemthing to do with god.

you also are on the verge of admitting(which would be easy if you are honest) that the math is not perfect. the big bang is just the best current model. it's not the explanation of everything. how you can claim knowledge of something that happended 14 billion years ago, when the math that "proves" it is not perfect, is beyond me. if you believe it, that's fine. i don't disbelieve it myself. it's still mighty arrogant to puff up your chest and act like you know something....

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:32 pm

garyb wrote:no, you think this has soemthing to do with god.

you also are on the verge of admitting(which would be easy if you are honest) that the math is not perfect. the big bang is just the best current model. it's not the explanation of everything. how you can claim knowledge of something that happended 14 billion years ago, when the math that "proves" it is not perfect, is beyond me. if you believe it, that's fine. i don't disbelieve it myself. it's still mighty arrogant to puff up your chest and act like you know something....

There is no math that can describe the Planck era, not that the Big Bang model is flawed. Do you understand that difference?

Then remember I said the Big Bang created the universe as we know it today not god and that's when you and your idiot sybling startdust, started panting for flaws in the Big Bang theory.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:40 pm

no, i don't.
you're oversimplifying and not even reading and comprehending my post. i never said that i deny the big bang as a reality. i just won't accept it as absolute fact. there is always the chance for better understanding .

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:44 pm

I don't care what you believe.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:07 pm

NYAH, NYAH, NYAH!

my name is bingo and i can't keep up with your logic, so i hate you and don't care what you say! nyah!

ok, man(i thought you were a man, anyway). nuff said. if you don't care what i think, stop replying.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:46 pm

... yawn ....

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:31 pm

Logic? Hilarious! You have none.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:36 pm

you say stupid things because i'm a young guy who knows it all. i am berry smart and will prove it!

look, it's been nice talking with you guys on this one(really! entertaining for everyone whether they admit it or not).

i wish you all good lives and a nice world. seriously. i hope you and your families are well and i hope you feel like part of the human family and wish the same for me. thanks.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:45 pm

You guys need to buy Flexor 3 and start creating. You will soon feel the power of creation, which might prove that Assaf Dar is God re-incarnated.

There's Your Daily Bread,

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 am

when I read somebody mentioning the man who parted the sea be waving his arm [tm], I remembered a nice short story I heard years ago. it kinda fits here, if not, please just ignore it:

in a park there sat a hippie, praising god in loud words "He is great. The Lord is great" and so on. along came a man who considered himself educated and did not believe in god. he asked the hippie what the heck was so great about god. the hippie told him that he just read the part of the bible where moses parted the red sea and the israelites went through it, not being harmed by the pharao and his army.

well, the educated man thought it was time to give some plausible explanations for the journey through the red sea. form several studies he knew the red sea was almost dry back in those days and the water wasn't any deeper than 30 cm. he told the hippie that it wasn't that hard for moses and his fellows to get beyond it, thus.

the hippie had gone entirely quiet. he had a sad look on his face. his happiness had gone.
the man patted him on the shoulder and said "come on, that's reality, don't worry, have a nice day" and went on.

he hadn't gone more than 5 meters when he heard the hippie raising his voice again, praising the lord even louder than before.
somehow irritated, the man returned to him and asked the hippie what made him still praise the lord. "oh, man" the hippie said, "I didn't know!. I just figured out The Lord is even greater than I thought just some minutes ago! not only did he get moses and the iraelites safely through the red sea, he also drowned the pharao and his whole army in 30cm high waters."

read and smile. and don't take everything too literally.

-kylie-

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:35 am

garyb wrote:NYAH, NYAH, NYAH!

my name is bingo and i can't keep up with your logic, so i hate you and don't care what you say! nyah!

ok, man(i thought you were a man, anyway). nuff said. if you don't care what i think, stop replying.

You think it's logical to expect someone to send probes 14 billions years into the past to test if the Big Bang was real?
How old are you, because your logic is of a 5 year old.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:26 am

"I don't care what you believe."
Haha, I can almost see the veins popping out on your forehead from here, and you say you don't care? Riiight. Ooops, sorry for the VICIOUS PERSONAL ATTACK you will whine and accuse me of, for saying that.

"You think it's logical to expect someone to send probes 14 billions years into the past to test if the Big Bang was real?
How old are you, because your logic is of a 5 year old."

Anyone can read what was posted and see whether there was ever such an expectation. If you need to LIE to push your atheistic nonsense, does that tell about your intent? Just because you constantly bray hatred and call people every name under the sun, doesn't mean you're impressing or convincing anyone. I guess people infected with the same hatred as you, bigots who AUTOMATICALLY despise people who belong to certain groups (in this case, the sizable group of people on this planet who are NOT atheists) might be thrilled in seeing so much vicious hatred spewed at their favourite target, over and over. Anyone else would just find you comical at best, and pitiable at worst.

I ask again - is this some kind of pyschology experiment? You can't be this much of an fool, can you? What do you get from posting on this board and calling everyone names? When you repeatedly show such IGNORANCE on what you're talking about, surely you must suspect your knowledge is incomplete, somewhere?

I repeat - you do not know any more about science than the ID crowd. If you were defending evolution in the US, it would already be illegal to teach. If you think science can prove or disprove God, no one should worry about being called 'moron', 'delusional' or more obscene names by you.

And - have a coffee, but maybe decaf.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:39 am

Liquid Len wrote:
Anyone can read what was posted and see whether there was ever such an expectation. If you need to LIE to push your atheistic nonsense, does that tell about your intent? Just because you constantly bray hatred and call people every name under the sun, doesn't mean you're impressing or convincing anyone. I guess people infected with the same hatred as you, bigots who AUTOMATICALLY despise people who belong to certain groups (in this case, the sizable group of people on this planet who are NOT atheists) might be thrilled in seeing so much vicious hatred spewed at their favourite target, over and over. Anyone else would just find you comical at best, and pitiable at worst.

I ask again - is this some kind of pyschology experiment? You can't be this much of an fool, can you? What do you get from posting on this board and calling everyone names? When you repeatedly show such IGNORANCE on what you're talking about, surely you must suspect your knowledge is incomplete, somewhere?

I repeat - you do not know any more about science than the ID crowd. If you were defending evolution in the US, it would already be illegal to teach. If you think science can prove or disprove God, no one should worry about being called 'moron', 'delusional' or more obscene names by you.

And - have a coffee, but maybe decaf.

Startdust wrote: Ok Clown, this one is about a physics lesson especially to you.
Thank you for politely asking for it.
I am willing to help you to get out of your 'black and white' extremes.
Certainly I know this is a big challenge for your little ego, but excuse me, I am sure it will be a good intellectual exercise and learning for you.

Gary did already a good job showing your science abuse.
What remains IMHO is:

1.) Big Bang theory is descriptive only at least when it comes to the Planck era, beacuse there is no math approach to correctly model the singularity.
2.) All serious scientist know that and have no problem with that, because that is normal for the scientific approach: to strive for improvements, knowing that a theory is a theory.
3.) Big Bang theory has its known limits: As a hint to you, since you seem to be a seriously interested adept, I am talking about the dark matter/dark energy complex and the genesis of large scale structures in the universe like the 'great wall'.
4.) There are no probes (empiric physical ones) that allow any conclusion about the planck era (staying in the context of today's physics of the standard model). Even if the TOE (maybe based on the current candidates String theory, M-Theory or Quantum loop theory) would be able to unify gravitaion with the other 3 forces and in general GTR with Quantum theory, we scientists do not have a gravitation probe into planck era, due to the practical limits of our technology.
5.) There are no probes at all to hop outside this universe (uni-verse) and look from outside and especially before the start of spacetime after (after !!) planck era.
You are still there Clown ? That means you and we dont know nothing about before the assumed singularity.
And a scientist does not even have a philosophical problem with the limitations of its theory before and after, because he knows his limits.
I am not even touching the questions of who and why ? Do you notice that ?

Conclusion (not exegesis):
Science (here cosmology) is not black and white (deterministic, materialistic) as you and your atheist cretins want to abuse it.
It just tells you what is empirically accessible and it knows its limits:
- the epistemologic ones, that you guys ignore constantly
- the existing flaws of the theories like Big Bang theory
- the transition between physics and meta-physics

break - here we get into a philosophical dispute beyond science.

And now you loosers come in and write nonsense about why science is the ultimate proof for the presumptuous superiority of atheism.
We had that before. There is no proof of atheism and there is no for theism by science ( argumentum ad ignorantiam )
Why ?
Because per definition this kind of philosophical discussion is not about empiric research, but exegesis of phenomenons. In best case it is about Meta-physics, and in the case of atheism a one dimensional anti-position to the theistic pole.

Stop spoiling science with your presumptuousness, learn modesty, logic and manners and if you really are interested physics.

Moron!

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:46 am

(1) how does this quote show that GaryB thinks "it's logical to expect someone to send probes 14 billions years into the past to test if the Big Bang was real? " I mean, even allowing for the 'fact' that GaryB is Stardust (hehehe).

(2) You need some new insults. We're getting tired of hearing 'moron' and 'delusional'. Surprise us!

http://thesaurus.reference.com/