God is not great: How religion poisons everthing

[BingoTheClowno]

Cristopher Hitchens lays down strong and clear arguments against religion in his book called "God is not great".

Imagine that you can perform a feat of which I am incapable. Imagine, in other words, that you can picture an infinitely benign and all-powerful creator, who conceived of you, then made and shaped you, brought you into the world he had made for you, and now supervises and cares for you even while you sleep. Imagine, further, that if you obey the rules and commandments that he has lovingly prescribed, you will qualify for an eternity of bliss and repose. I do not say that I envy you this belief (because to me it seems like the wish for a horrible form of benevolent and unalterable dictatorship), but I do have a sincere question. Why does such a belief not make its adherents happy? It must seem to them that they have come into possession of a marvelous secret, of the sort that they could cling to in moments of even the most extreme adversity.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18503995/site/newsweek/

Comedy Central interview with John Stewart

[Liquid Len]

Get your popcorn out...

[FrancisHarmany]

OK. I'll bite.

To start, he fails to give a definition of Creator or God. The problem is, of course, they have to look at their own assumption when defining something they "do not believe in".

He goes on, choosing to follow rules is a dictatorship in his perspective ?? I do not see a strong or clear argument in that.

He talks about belief, but like anybody who is a sceptic to defend their own believes, he forgets the whole bag of tricks we all have: Consiousness, Intuition, Experience.

The other question is, can you _know_ something without it being "prooven" ? How does that work, and why have the scientists ignored that ability we have.

I can go on and on poking holes in peoples assumptions, as they can do in mine.

Of course GOD EXISTS. DUH. Its FACT. The question is, whats a good Definition for that which we call God. We all know IT is there. You might assign differnt names & forms to it.

oh well.... just some thoughts

[manfriday]

Hitchens is an interesting individual. I tend to agree with a lot of what he says, but I don't find a lot of his arguments particularly "strong" on the subject.

It's hard to make a really "strong" case for or against something that can be defined in so many different ways.

In the above quote by Hitchens it appears he is taking aim at judeo-christianity, but he seems to have a skewed perspective on certain articles of the faith.

More specifically, he talks about the belief "not making it's adherents happy", but the belief is not about making it's adherents "happy" per say, but offering them hope for something better than the life they currently have.

And he does on to speak of clinging to this 'secret' in the face of extreme adversity.. But that is precisely the time when most people do tend to cling to their faith..
So I don't know where he was going with that one. Perhaps some context was lost in the lifted quote.

[sharc]

I don't think the guy's arguing against the existence of god. To me the article seemed more to be highlighting the fact that organized religion is nowadays as corrupt as it always has been.

[manfriday]

"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."

quote from Douglas Adam's HHGTTG

Come on, isn't that impressive ?

Hehe. It is amusing, and I loved Douglas Adam's books, but it is nothing more than an amusing joke.
As an argument, it is devoid of logic.

[braincell]

I'm convinced that a lot of what passes for knowledge is due to brainwashing by parents and society. If you accept something as a fact, there is no need to question it and furthermore, to question the existence of god would jar your sense of reality and that is something that would drive people insane.

The only hope is to slowly educate young people. Perhaps some will pass it down to their children. It is not going to be easy to undo centuries of misinformation. It might even have become part of our DNA. Some scientists think they found a part of the brain that deals with god which is more active in people who have this fantasy of a higher being.

[manfriday]

It can be a fine line between "educating young people" and "brainwashing"

[garyb]

waaaahhh....

[next to nothing]

brainwashing? please!!!

i guess the next statement is that all kids are suffering from the stockholm-syndrome, since they are being held captive by their parents and still love them.

most of todays education isnt so bad that the child itself cant make his own judgement of his own believes by the age of 10-15. of course his mind is colored of his parents way of life and religion! and that goes if they are christian, muslim, hippies or atheist!

and in MOST cases, whatever you teach them they will question pretty hard when they become teenagers.

[manfriday]

And with what do those parents brainwash their children then ?

Depends on who you are talking too, doesn't it?

[H-Rave]

so brainwashing woud be what we call tradition or religion, more so tradition I think ?, I think alot of religious aspects come more from tradition i.e things that may have been vital 2000 years ago.

[manfriday]

no, brainwashing has nothing to do with religion or traditons per say..
It is a method of changing a persons beliefs thru coercion or forced repetition.
Cults do it. Political parties do it. advertisers do it.

However, it is most commonly used to belittle a school of thought one disagrees with.

Which, coincidentally, is a tactic used in brainwashing.
;D

[dawman]

Here is proof that " God " is real !!

[Spirit]

Before mono-theism there were (so far as I can research) no significant wars over religion.

In the ancient Roman and Greek religious systems there was room for everyone's god or gods. When the Romans acquired new areas (through conquest or alliance) the locals Gods just became part of the wider pantheon.

It was only when the monotheistic religions came along (Christians/ Jews / Muslims) proclaiming that there was only one God and that everyone else was stupid/ignorant/damned that all the trouble began.

[manfriday]

when was there a time 'before' monotheism?

In the ancient Roman and Greek religious systems there was room for everyone's god or gods.

That would be because the romans ripped off all their gods..
And when they conquered other nations those nations were allowed to keep their gods only as long as they paid homage to the emperor.
An exepction was made for jews before 70 AD because the romans at the time knew that the jews would never go for paying homage to the roman emperor in their temples.

It was only when the monotheistic religions came along

The trouble with religon began far earlier than that.
Take a look at Akhenaten and his sun god..

[braincell]

It's interesting to see people refer to other religions as "cults" when every single religion is a cult.

[Zer]

ervery christian bibel lacks from translation. The old hebraic language is capable of 4 and more relevances. And this has been translated first into latin and afterwards into all other languages from people who wanted their interpretation to be spread.
God would be great from the point that we all togehter are god. But no god will help you, only youself can do.

There`s no god who will serve your daily food. Thinking is a matter of yourself. Rules are a metetr of yourself. And nothnig else matters.

[manfriday]

It's interesting to see people refer to other religions as "cults" when every single religion is a cult.

the term "cult" simply refers to a religion that is not 'mainstream'.
So in that sense, christianity was once a cult of Judaism, yes.

[braincell]

According to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, popularity has nothing to do with the definition of a cult, however one definition is "unorthodox" which I guess you might argue means unpopular. Of course anything outside of ones own religion is unorthodox.