God is not great: How religion poisons everthing
an "omni" creator does not have to be subject to the same limitations of "reason" as you or the universe does.
no, i won't explain the difference between the hebrew and "pagan" and biblical gods. they are very different, i assure you. i will tell you this much, the hebrews are not the first or only "monotheists". monotheism is the true form of even the polytheist religions. basically, all systems agree that when it really comes down to it, there's only one god. there are however, many aspects which can be worshipped as individual entities for personal gain. one other thing i'll tell you is that traditionally, for the hebrew people(at least for the "abrahamic" tradition, when properly observed), there is NEVER a god-king who is a man on earth. this is strictly pagan(Nimrod's creation and claim), even in the bible. this is the god that definitely doesn't exist, no matter how powerful some space god-king raelian messianic personage may be.
down with the go'auld and the ori. the ancients can kiss my......
and f@#k christopher hitchins.
no, i won't explain the difference between the hebrew and "pagan" and biblical gods. they are very different, i assure you. i will tell you this much, the hebrews are not the first or only "monotheists". monotheism is the true form of even the polytheist religions. basically, all systems agree that when it really comes down to it, there's only one god. there are however, many aspects which can be worshipped as individual entities for personal gain. one other thing i'll tell you is that traditionally, for the hebrew people(at least for the "abrahamic" tradition, when properly observed), there is NEVER a god-king who is a man on earth. this is strictly pagan(Nimrod's creation and claim), even in the bible. this is the god that definitely doesn't exist, no matter how powerful some space god-king raelian messianic personage may be.
down with the go'auld and the ori. the ancients can kiss my......
and f@#k christopher hitchins.
Lenny Liquid,
I was merely pointing out the positive aspects of our scala.
During WWII our intelligence, code breaking, and lack of standardism, gave us an important edge in the Pacific theatre, along with the " Windtalkers " of the Navajo Nation. ( American Indians ). Coded transmissions.
And the Brits used this as well, along with their discovery of Radio waves and radar.
I always see both sides of the coin, and try to elaborate on the happier topics. If I want to be miserable, I won't do that on this forum. I'll just watch the media, and it's constant reminder of what a terrible world it is. That's why I rarely watch television, and prefer satellite everything.
Even as a child I treated religion as one of those things you don't fight, but go along with it. Make the best of it I say. Just like Santa Claus. We dare not pretend that he was fake, as we were scared our list of presents would diminish.
If anyone here is going to burn in hell, it should be me. My father has never been told this, but I loved Sunday school as a child. We as a family would go to our Luthern church where our Pastors would greet us, then my brothers and I would go downstairs to Sunday school, and my parents would go up to the church service. My cue was when I heard the choir sing. I would raise my hand to go to the restroom, and actually would sneak up to the balcony where the choir members put on their robes and left their purses. I was a corrupted child I agree, but I would only take a couple of bucks out of each purse so I could come back the next week. How many others here will admit they always wondered where the offering would go. I even knew that, but when I was 10 years old, my safecracking skills were not honed in yet. So I learned then that this was a hoax of sorts, but I was not about to argue it's existence. Especially when they bought my first effects units. The Vox plug in your guitar Distortion box ( Hello I Love You ala The Doors, Inna Gadda Da Vida ), and Vox Wah-Wah pedal. Praise the Lord. Afterall, I wasn't hurting anyone, and beleived that this additional money could be put to good use. So if I as a child back in 1966 knew this to be a farce, I am sure most adults thesedays, just go along with it and pray their children won't be like me. But I had the best rig for guitars and keys all of my life, and will continue to do so. But here in the states, we quit doing crime when we turn 17, to avoid punishment by the law. But until then, I beleived in my 17 year window.
Anyone else want to give some of their dark secrets. Since I will never meet most of you, I feel we have a unique forum, and can be truthful. Since I was raised Lutheran, and didn't have confession, I shall spill to my brothers here.
I think this is what most people were like where I grew up. Afterall, if a Catholic preist can moleste children for years in the name of God, my little scams surely were not as devious as the " Men Of The Robe ". I even got my first peice of ass on a church retreat in Colorado !! So of course I shall still Prasie The Lord. And my grandchildren love me when I dress up as Santa.
Both falsehoods serve me well.
Excuse Me Brothas', I Must Practice My Hymns.
GaryB, I hope you don't cancel on me for the 19th for being such a little shit ass kid.
I was merely pointing out the positive aspects of our scala.
During WWII our intelligence, code breaking, and lack of standardism, gave us an important edge in the Pacific theatre, along with the " Windtalkers " of the Navajo Nation. ( American Indians ). Coded transmissions.
And the Brits used this as well, along with their discovery of Radio waves and radar.
I always see both sides of the coin, and try to elaborate on the happier topics. If I want to be miserable, I won't do that on this forum. I'll just watch the media, and it's constant reminder of what a terrible world it is. That's why I rarely watch television, and prefer satellite everything.
Even as a child I treated religion as one of those things you don't fight, but go along with it. Make the best of it I say. Just like Santa Claus. We dare not pretend that he was fake, as we were scared our list of presents would diminish.
If anyone here is going to burn in hell, it should be me. My father has never been told this, but I loved Sunday school as a child. We as a family would go to our Luthern church where our Pastors would greet us, then my brothers and I would go downstairs to Sunday school, and my parents would go up to the church service. My cue was when I heard the choir sing. I would raise my hand to go to the restroom, and actually would sneak up to the balcony where the choir members put on their robes and left their purses. I was a corrupted child I agree, but I would only take a couple of bucks out of each purse so I could come back the next week. How many others here will admit they always wondered where the offering would go. I even knew that, but when I was 10 years old, my safecracking skills were not honed in yet. So I learned then that this was a hoax of sorts, but I was not about to argue it's existence. Especially when they bought my first effects units. The Vox plug in your guitar Distortion box ( Hello I Love You ala The Doors, Inna Gadda Da Vida ), and Vox Wah-Wah pedal. Praise the Lord. Afterall, I wasn't hurting anyone, and beleived that this additional money could be put to good use. So if I as a child back in 1966 knew this to be a farce, I am sure most adults thesedays, just go along with it and pray their children won't be like me. But I had the best rig for guitars and keys all of my life, and will continue to do so. But here in the states, we quit doing crime when we turn 17, to avoid punishment by the law. But until then, I beleived in my 17 year window.
Anyone else want to give some of their dark secrets. Since I will never meet most of you, I feel we have a unique forum, and can be truthful. Since I was raised Lutheran, and didn't have confession, I shall spill to my brothers here.
I think this is what most people were like where I grew up. Afterall, if a Catholic preist can moleste children for years in the name of God, my little scams surely were not as devious as the " Men Of The Robe ". I even got my first peice of ass on a church retreat in Colorado !! So of course I shall still Prasie The Lord. And my grandchildren love me when I dress up as Santa.
Both falsehoods serve me well.
Excuse Me Brothas', I Must Practice My Hymns.
GaryB, I hope you don't cancel on me for the 19th for being such a little shit ass kid.
Last edited by dawman on Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BingoTheClowno
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So the belief that god made the Earth in seven days is more complex than the Big Bang theory? From that statement I think it is clear who's the intellectual moron.stardust wrote:Here is Theo Hobson to respond to Hitchens:
.....I consider the atheist's desire to generalise about religion to be a case of intellectual cowardice. The intellectual coward is one who chooses simplicity over complexity and difficulty. The militant atheist chooses to uphold a worldview of Animal Farm crudity: atheist good, believer bad. He has to believe this; it is his claim to the moral high ground. Christopher Hitchens sounds like a man who is desperate for a big cause, for an agenda that will give him one last chance of some high significance, a last stab at prophet status. By seeking his grand purpose in atheism he exhibits the sort of intellectual timidity he claims to despise.
By the way this the definition of theory from Wiki, the Scientific Theory I think this the one you have difficulties accepting even though they prolong and save countless of lives (for most people on the globe):
Dismissing science as a mere "theory" is the stupidest and oldest tactic in the believers bag. You can't stand it because it is clear, concise and above all real and tangible.Wikipedia wrote:In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and a theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the general theory of relativity.
For qualitative, and subjective truth, religion seems to be a much more powerful construct.
Yeah, is it powerful enough to power my lawnmower? What in the world are you talking about? Braincell was right, what fucking truth are we talking about here? Something that god passed in secret to you?
Last edited by BingoTheClowno on Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nah, i love that show. it's the initiation into the mysteries and other sumerian(nimrod's)delights for the masses in the 21st century.....(damned occultists..)stardust wrote:so you dont like stargate
Last edited by garyb on Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
science is a technique, not the truth. many aspects of "truth can be found and demonstrated through science. stop making it your religion. fwiw, i like the scientific method. i just don't believe that everything is explainable, or, if everything is explainable, i don't believe explanations are always correct. in fact, scientists are always changing their minds(as they should) when new info become available, indicating that anything that is accepted as absolute truth is likely to be found not absolutely true when more info is found. in other words, science is hardly an answer for anything. voodoo and obeah practitioners call their art "science" and experience is their teacher, just like other sciences....
an example of scientists changing their mind? global warming.
more and more scientists are convinced that the commonly accepted explanations are 100% false, even while the public and their leaders and politicians are more and more convinced that it's all true. science proved the first assumptions about warming and science disproves them later. why? because theories are educated guesses to be proven through experiments. if the experiments are flawed, however, the rusults of the experiments and the resulting theories accepted as fact are equally flawed.
it's impossible to prove god's existance one way or the other. a true scientist would not say that god doesn't exist, he'd say, "I can't prove it one way or another, but i think.....". religions can be shown to be based on falsehoods, but really, i find that most religious people who are "true believers" are the type you'd want in your neighborhood. they'd mind their own business and be charitable and helpful, good and reliable friends, and moral people. their leaders may be for shit and there are many "wolves in sheep's clothing", but what i've seen is that the same people promoting the worst things about religion are the same people promoting atheism. the names of the game include "divide and rule" and "order out of chaos".
Jimmy, why should i be mad at you? were you the one throwing eggs and playing "ding dong ditch 'em" the other day?
an example of scientists changing their mind? global warming.
more and more scientists are convinced that the commonly accepted explanations are 100% false, even while the public and their leaders and politicians are more and more convinced that it's all true. science proved the first assumptions about warming and science disproves them later. why? because theories are educated guesses to be proven through experiments. if the experiments are flawed, however, the rusults of the experiments and the resulting theories accepted as fact are equally flawed.it's impossible to prove god's existance one way or the other. a true scientist would not say that god doesn't exist, he'd say, "I can't prove it one way or another, but i think.....". religions can be shown to be based on falsehoods, but really, i find that most religious people who are "true believers" are the type you'd want in your neighborhood. they'd mind their own business and be charitable and helpful, good and reliable friends, and moral people. their leaders may be for shit and there are many "wolves in sheep's clothing", but what i've seen is that the same people promoting the worst things about religion are the same people promoting atheism. the names of the game include "divide and rule" and "order out of chaos".
Jimmy, why should i be mad at you? were you the one throwing eggs and playing "ding dong ditch 'em" the other day?
yay to garyb.
more sense from the scopemaster.
Tho I must say, some sometimes a scientific 'theory' isnt really a theory at all. But is truly a fact.
I also think that everything is explainable, it just needs more knowledge than we currently have. With enough investigation, everything can be explained, its just pur ignorance holding us back.
PS Manfriday: it was a good point about the poythieists attacking akenhaten, mono/poly whatever all dogmatic religion is the same. I had to clarify the point.
more sense from the scopemaster.
Tho I must say, some sometimes a scientific 'theory' isnt really a theory at all. But is truly a fact.
I also think that everything is explainable, it just needs more knowledge than we currently have. With enough investigation, everything can be explained, its just pur ignorance holding us back.
PS Manfriday: it was a good point about the poythieists attacking akenhaten, mono/poly whatever all dogmatic religion is the same. I had to clarify the point.
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BingoTheClowno
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What is the motherfucking truth?garyb wrote:science is a technique, not the truth.
Yes science is my religion. My religion prolongs lives, cures diseases, builds bridges and highrises, flys you from New York to Munchen in 11 hours, it sends probes to Mars and people to the Moon. What the fuck does your religion do?
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Liquid Len
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sorry bingo.
if science is your religion, you have a problem. science is not religion except to the ignorant. i never spoke a bad word about science. my grandfather was a scientist who invented among other things, 4 hour nasal spray and foam plastic, as used in airplane wings and seat cushions. he started the chemistry department at lockheed and i loved him. i grew up on scientific american and peer review papers. all i said is the truth. the TRUTH is that by definition, science is not truth. science is a method of discovering and learning about the truth and it is not in competition with god. many great scienctists(most) believe in god. you don't have to, i certainly don't care if you do or not.
btw-science has not made people live longer, nor has it cured disease. if any of those things have been done, people did them. however, if science does get credit for those things, there are many problems that science also gets credit for, like pollution, garbage, nuclear weapons, bio weapons, the flu, aids, cell phones, etc, etc, etc.....
if science is your religion, you have a problem. science is not religion except to the ignorant. i never spoke a bad word about science. my grandfather was a scientist who invented among other things, 4 hour nasal spray and foam plastic, as used in airplane wings and seat cushions. he started the chemistry department at lockheed and i loved him. i grew up on scientific american and peer review papers. all i said is the truth. the TRUTH is that by definition, science is not truth. science is a method of discovering and learning about the truth and it is not in competition with god. many great scienctists(most) believe in god. you don't have to, i certainly don't care if you do or not.
btw-science has not made people live longer, nor has it cured disease. if any of those things have been done, people did them. however, if science does get credit for those things, there are many problems that science also gets credit for, like pollution, garbage, nuclear weapons, bio weapons, the flu, aids, cell phones, etc, etc, etc.....
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BingoTheClowno
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I am ignorant? Now that's a new twist.
Let me tell you what's ignorant, the belief that a man rose from the dead, and that is what your stupid religion is teaching you. That is the "secret" truth my friend. Your religion is deceiving people into relinquishing their reason, enslaving their minds through mantras and prayers, to fictitious yo- yo gods.
Let me tell you what's ignorant, the belief that a man rose from the dead, and that is what your stupid religion is teaching you. That is the "secret" truth my friend. Your religion is deceiving people into relinquishing their reason, enslaving their minds through mantras and prayers, to fictitious yo- yo gods.
Yup, using holy water and smoke.Gary wrote: btw-science has not made people live longer, nor has it cured disease. if any of those things have been done, people did them.
sir, you must be mistaking me for someone else. also, you don't seem to be responding to my actual words. when have i laid claim to any of the things you accuse me of? do you think you've guessed my religion? the church i'm alleged to attend and the denomination? you are stereotyping, i guess, but i'm not sure what the tell tale signs are supposed to be. this is the internet and you don't know me, neither do you know what i think. i know this because you are not comprehending my words. i know you don't comprehend them because your response assumes things about me and what i think that are absolutely untrue. you are veiwing everything through your own prejudices and that's the problem with the thread in general.part of me wants to laugh because you are so upset and soooo wrong. the other part doesn't want to mock you because that doesn't help me and i have no reason to want to be your enemy. also, i can see where you might feel trolled, although although i bear you no malevolent intentions. still you've earned this: yes you are ignorant. you are ignorant as to my religion and whether or not i have one. don't worry though. i am ignorant of many things. ignorance is not a crime.
all i said was science is not a religion, it is a technique for explaining and understanding the phenomena of this existance. religion is a system of worship of god. if you wish to make science your system of worship of god, my apologies. you may certainly worship god as you see fit. as a religion, i don't suppose science has done any worse than some of the others...
any more bad feelings should be straightened out in private.
also, a little OT, if holy water and smoke, acupuncture, herbs, sutures, or pills fix the problem and the patient is happy with that, no problem there, i guess. modern medicine IS very good with broken bones, wounds, infections and other immediate trauma, but not so good with chronic disease. in most chronic conditions, modern western medicine is poor to fair, sometimes not better than primitive herbs or other culture's systems such as auryuveda or chinese medicine, very old proven systems. often in chronic conditions, western meds can be more dibilitating than the disease. i also have relatives in medicine, so i see this, but these things aren't secret. there are many people in asia who live to be over 100 years old and 80 and 90 year olds are often contributing active members of society. people live a long time in general, except in the city, you know, the workers in the industrial ares. it's in the cities that lifespan has radically increased, largely because people have earned a right to somewhat clean water, food and conditions. europe was a hellhole for most people up until relatively recently, the middle ages were deplorable for the common man. of course lifespans have been increasing the last few hundred years since the renaissance. in asia and many parts of africa and the americas, people routinely live and have lived into their 90s and 100s. people are normally healthy. when people are always sick, that indicates the person is living in a sick world. the body normally heals itself and has defense against parasitic invasion. ANY good doctor will tell you that the patient heals himself. the doctor can only help or hinder that process.
I would like to weigh in on this. Bingo is frustrated because by now you would think we would have made more intellectual progress. We want to be in the modern world yet people for the most part are not able to discard superstitions and pointless tradition. To say that the bible wasn't meant to be taken literally is a cop out by those who want to retain religion, even though it is an outdated and primitive mode of understanding. I'm not saying that science has all the answers or ever will. What I am saying is if we don't know the answer to something, don't just make something up with no proof. Can't you just say "we don't know the answer"?
Why do we need an excuse of a god to explain things we don't understand?
Why do we need an excuse of a god to explain things we don't understand?
oh sure, it's all there. the names of the Go'aulds and so on. for example, an episode early on where Daniel Jackson meets an Oannes, a creature from Sumerian legend who protected man(and taught him civilization) from the Annunaki(Go'auld in SG-1) who genetically engineered man(according to Sumerian legend) to work in the mines digging gold(naquadah and other precious metals in SG-1). Daniel Jackson uses his memory of Sumerian legend to tell this fish man what happended to his mate in ancient Babylon.stardust wrote:Hmm I never followed the story in detail. Might be right that this is the reason for 9 seasons around pyramids and dimension gates.garyb wrote:nah, i love that show. it's the initiation into the mysteries and other sumerian(nimrod's)delights for the masses in the 21st century.....(damned occultists..)stardust wrote:
the pure technology thing would not be enough, the occultistic and pseudo religious part might grab more attention in the long term.