PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

it's how money is made.

mediamalte wrote:I'm reading al lot of Magazins like Producer, Sound & Recorduíng. Musik & Pc and so on...
Since years there wasn't one similar article or notice about creamware or Soniccore. Even the change from Creamware to Soniccore and the announcments for Scope 5.0 was not named. Does anyone know why?

because there has been nothing to announce?

I remember seeing reviews of all the ASB's in most music tech magazines. I'm sure if there's new products there will also be new articles.

Obviously, SC not communicating with the press at all is not a good way to get their attention in the first place.

The Scope 5 announcement didn't reall tell anyone anything about it either.

If SC wants the world to know about them and their products, they'd better start sending out some press releases and buying some ad space, especially since they changed the name of the system to reflect the new company name.
Now what will happen if suddenly there's a "soniccore system" in the shop? People might know or have heard of Creamware or Scope, but how should they know that it's now called Sonic Core?

Well they will buy it then they will go here and then they will ask and then we will answer

King of Snake wrote:If SC wants the world to know about them and their products, they'd better start sending out some press releases and buying some ad space, especially since they changed the name of the system to reflect the new company name.

that's pretty much how it works....

I'm definitely not in the 'Apple camp'.

It may be fair to say that I'm in the 'Mac camp'

I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you're wrong in your assumption that the Mac concept is *nothing but marketing bullshit*. This is absolutely false, and that's coming from someone who has used Windows machines for 15 years+ and have built many boxes and configured them for realtime audio use.

Freedom/openness is one thing, but what does it actually give you? Sure you might be able to upgrade the CPU or whatever, but often this means buying a new motherboard and RAM anyway - so what is the point? After using Windows boxes for years, the only conclusion I have come to is that they are a bottomless pit of money and time because you CAN upgrade them. I guess I'm at a point where I simply can't be bothered to spend hours researching components, looking at benchmarks, trying to figure out the latest marketing shite from AMD and Intel, etc etc. There comes a point when it just becomes boring and tedious.

As an aside - today I spent a fun 3 hours removing TR/Vundo.Gen from my Windows box at work, because some web page graphic took advantage of a Windows/Firefox/Java vulnerability and infected the machine. I'm not saying Macs aren't vulnerable but I honestly can't imagine this kind of thing happening on Mac (at least it isn't happening yet).

As for price - I have bought several pre-built PC laptops like Dell, Sony etc - I can say without exception that none of them is built as well as Mac laptops. The build is not solid, the plastic creaks, it's generally a much inferior machine physically, and it really shows after 2 or 3 years of use. At work we have an ancient 550mHz G4 Powerbook which still works great. Re: desktops - given the choice of a POS Dell pre-built desktop machine and a Mac - what do you think most musicians will go for? The one that comes filled with lots of stupid startup apps (Trojans) or the more expensive one that won't give you hell trying to get it to work? Most musicians I know don't want to re-install the OS as the first task when they bring their new computer home.

Anyway, we can argue this all day, but all I'm trying to say is that it's wrong to assume that Macs are purely fashion/status symbol/marketing bullshit - I would agree with you on things like iPods but I can't agree regarding Macs.

It's not a question of 'which machine is more "pro"' - it's all about what machine is easier to deal with... most 'pros' don't have much time to deal with the annoying problems often found on Windows so that basically leaves the Mac.

I'm happy to be convinced otherwise, but by rational, realistic arguments only

By the way, I used to feel the same about Macs as you, until I spent some decent time with OSX and understood the ethos behind it (or succumbed to the brainwashing, depending on your perspective

darkrezin wrote:I'm definitely not in the 'Apple camp'.
It may be fair to say that I'm in the 'Mac camp'

hehe, but that as true as it is for me.
I hardly ever visit the Apple home site, I hardly ever visit computersites anyway, only when I need something to buy, like recently a newer DVD drive (43 euro, Pioneer but not Apple branded and -indeed- much more plastic!).
I can forget about my mac as a hardware machine for months, I'm not thinking of it, it's just there.
If I start having Cubase crashes I know it's time to upgrade to a faster processor, that's it.

What 'open' pc world?
I told you lately what I changed in my old and new mac, including a (new) faster processor board for my old mac, bought for 45 euro from someone on ebay/Hongkong.
Yes, all those dumb pro mac users are blinded by Jobs marketing talks, we are stupid, as he himself stated already, so who would deny that

It's time to ask John for a mac corner on this forum, I bet the conversation would be much more focussed on making music than the all and everywhere dominating never ending tech and problem talk (no offend tho).
Imagine all that bullshit would be removed from planetz, what a lightness of being would that give.
And a problem forum could be left out, what a relieve...

Imagine, before I came to Planetz I really didn't know what 'they' were talking about: mobo. mobo? motherboard? whát motherboard? does my mac have that also?
(in the nineties pc wasn't really in charge, and I hardly knew serious pc musicions).
Yes, that sounds 'green', but I made music on mac for years already (9 to be precise).
Aside mobo's you also have the real tech stuff: IRQ, HT, ACPI layer, totally unexpected midi behaviour, clicks and pops (never heard how that sounds), etc.
Boring, really boring.
Did I say boring?
Yes, boring, really really boring.
Boring?
yes, b-o-r-i-n-g.
boring. boring.
BORIIIIIINGGG...ahh

But... me too must be indoctrinated...
it's strange tho that my macs seems to be indoctrinated also: they work as marketed, the thing just works, and as most of you know I have a relatively complicated setup with two macs, thanks to Creamware (and Apple, indeed, I would like to kill Jobs for leaving out the classic PCI format).
If I wouldn't be on Planetz, I would hardly ever think of my computer, the thing is just there.
Yeah, sthey look nice, but it's under my table, I never look at it

No need for a separate forum IMHO... there are plenty of Mac forums out there. It's not needed here, it would just be cool if people didn't get caught up in politics and marketing crap for a fuckin computer...

darkrezin wrote:No need for a separate forum IMHO... there are plenty of Mac forums out there.

naah... they are boring too, why would I like to talk about my computer anyway (indeed)?

hubird wrote:naah... they are boring too, why would I like to talk about my computer anyway (indeed)?

well, there are several people proud enough of their hardware to copy the specs to their sigs, so there certainly must be something about it

-greetings, markus-

hubird wrote:If I wouldn't be on Planetz, I would hardly ever think of my computer, the thing is just there.
Yeah, sthey look nice, but it's under my table, I never look at it

me too.

I guess the Mac chip on your shoulder is hard-wired

I got your point though... the thing is, I was pointing out that it was a little bit paranoid and ridiculous, which seems to be based on an assumption that the Mac is an inferior machine or designed for inferior, stupid people.

A good friend of mine is a programmer who's worked on Windows his whole life - totally Windows-centric guy, he had friends working at M$, he even had a Media Center in his front room (!). Recently he saw the advantages of Macs and switched all his machines. He's definitely not stupid or ignorant or the type of person who believes marketing. He simply used the system for a while and liked it.

I'm not saying everyone should switch - just that prejudice against people who do is unnecessary

stardust wrote:yep.
Mine works as well.

you lucky bastard!

Who said it's 'pro' ? A lot of professionals happen to use it - whether its the majority or not, if it's a significant number, then a magazine has to address that readership...

eh, a computer is a computer...
i want to see osx support....

HW? only the motherboard is a given thing in a mac...
you name also SW, but even the OS is exchangable...you can run Windows on a mac, try the opposite on a pc
I renewed the processor, added HD's, DVD drive, soon a new multi-fan setup, etc.
Stay with the facts Stardusty

hubird wrote:only the motherboard is a given thing in a mac...
you name SW, but even the OS is exchangable...you can run Windows on a mac, try the opposite on a pc
I renewed the processor, added HD's, DVD drive, soon a new fan setup, etc.
Stay with the facts Stardusty

Oh you can run osx on a c2d machine;) search for projekt x86.

stardust wrote:I am happy to see OSX support if SC can afford it.
especially when it leads to Linux support as well

In the US market Dell has 32 %followed by HP with 23 %.
What if Dell now says:
[hypothetical mode on]
We have the premium Windows DAWs on this planet.
All our machines cost 1000$ more but they are then preconfigured then.
You can run only HW and SW certified by us.
They cost more, but they look coooler and they are guaranteed to run stable on our type of PC.
Since we favor PATA no SATA HD will be supported.
but your Dell mp3player can be always linked via a bproprietary böuetooth link anytime anywhere.
[/hypothethical mode off]

Wouldnt that be a dream machine for Windows DAW ?

There are plenty of companies that create specialist Windows DAW machines - guess what, it's at a premium cost And IMHO still cannot match the integration/slickness/ease of use of OSX. My humble opinion only, of course. Nothing wrong with them essentially - they are just another choice for the end user. It comes down to which system you are comfortable and which will work best for you.

Just a funny link I got sent today (purely for fun ) :

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13664 ... ticle.html

Fluxpod wrote:

hubird wrote:only the motherboard is a given thing in a mac...
you name SW, but even the OS is exchangable...you can run Windows on a mac, try the opposite on a pc
I renewed the processor, added HD's, DVD drive, soon a new fan setup, etc.
Stay with the facts Stardusty

Oh you can run osx on a c2d machine;) search for projekt x86.

Wheee! Perhaps the nicest option of all

from the link above:
The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year (through 10/25/07) is a Mac. Try that again: The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year--or for that matter, ever--is a Mac. Not a Dell, not a Toshiba, not even an Alienware.

but the MacBook's score is far more impressive simply because Apple couldn't care less whether you run Windows.

remarkable for a fake pro image set by just marketing, isn't it Stardust

I think any company selling something tries to imply that it is the best example of its type, at least within the bounds of acceptable truth or law. If there's any conspiracy between evil Apple and the music tech magazines, I'm sure it will all come out eventually in a front page tabloid story and the criminal mastermind behind it will be hung out to dry By the way, I only ever saw this kind of paranoia about another computing platform from blinkered and uninformed Mac-fans

Anyway to return to topic: I really can't understand how someone can buy something as complex as a computer or audio card like Scope just because of some info from an advert. Maybe I'm just not rich enough to understand this? But if there's people out there happy to listen to corporate-sponsored info and then throw their cash at it, I say let them consume as they see fit, and may the company that does the most convincing adverts win. Is this not what freedom is (in our free market capitalist world of course) ?