Yoga (Reloaded)

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:48 pm

I find it amazing.

It is like having faith in something you cannot touch or feel. I suppose it is meant for people who want to believe, and care little of the proof required. If it helps you relieve stress in your everyday life, which has been proven BTW, why question it ? Try it, see if it helps you.

Faith is a very tricky topic. One can ask " did you love your mother ? " Most people would say yes. Well prove it.

Even if I don't get around to practicing this right away, I love reading about it, as I consider myself very spiritual, but am confused if it's God, Jesus, Allah, Mohammed, Buddha to whom I should focus my spiritualism towards. I am grateful for the life I have been given, and the chances I have had to further myself, but I only have my ancestors to thank so far, as I am searching for the truth, whever it may be. I firmly believe that we are no accident. Humans that is. So I enjoy reading the Mahabharata, Ramayana, Bible, Koran and ancient American Indian writings of Medecine men, and prophets like Edgar Cayce, etc.

At least if I never find an answer, I have tried by reading as much material as I can in between Scope sessions, gigs, and family time. And the material is all spitual, and educational also.

I see nothing but good coming from these studies, and would love to see proof, but the quest to attain it is just as satisfying.

Thanks For Sharing Your Findings With Us.

And Thanks To The Skeptics Who Always Make The Theads Stay Alive A Little Longer.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:53 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:"

Yoga doesn't have anything to do with science,

And you would know ..... how ? I will be happy to discuss the Subtle Anatomy, and other parts of yoga.

Can you please stay on topic ? You can always post somewhere else telling people what you think about yoga. Then we can use this thread to discuss things like Subtle Anatomy

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:03 pm

scope4live wrote:
... but I only have my ancestors to thank so far, as I am searching for the truth, whever it may be. I firmly believe that we are no accident. Humans that is.

Well if you really want to search for truth why don't you pick up a real book?
How about Carl Sagan's and Ann Druyan's Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors?

Post by **hubird** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:06 pm

why would you claim Yoga is science?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:07 pm

FrancisHarmany wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:"

Yoga doesn't have anything to do with science,
And you would know ..... how ?

Again, if you'd read my posts you'd know.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:17 pm

hubird wrote:why would you claim Yoga is science?

Why not ? It is. Yoga is not just a posture, or a mantra, or a breathing exercise.

I will say this. Yoga tells us how emotions and thoughts are formed. How everything flows into eachother ( ether, air, fire, water, earth ). Yoga tells us how energy moves! Contracts, Expands, Balanced! (look at your breathing).

So this is just a tiny bit. Very tiny. Yoga will go on and explain things like Ego, Intellect, Intelligence, Memory.

Also Joy, Love and of course, fear, hate , attachment and not to forget.................................. IGNORANCE!

yes I am very ignorant

But something which includes all these things, isnt that a science !?!?

Post by **garyb** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:20 pm

ok, bingo, Carl Sagan is a joke among real scientists. he is a TV scientist. you probably think Ayn Rand is a scientist...

i like the way he says "billions and billions" though....

damn bingo, you just can't help but spread your hate can you?

personally, many of the explanations in yoga are silly to me, but on the other hand, it has been helpful to people for many thousands of years before europe was ever "civilized". in fact the hindu culture that it springs from is the foundation of modern western thought. even if it's mostly hokum, it's worthy of more respect than you are showing. the fact is that as daily exercise for mind and body yoga has real tangible, measurable value. you want to pretend that there's some consensus that knows exactly how everything works and further, WHY. that is clown thinking. it's the ultimate stupidity.

why do you get such pleasure from being a troll?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:22 pm

FrancisHarmany wrote:
hubird wrote:why would you claim Yoga is science?
Why not ? It is. Yoga is not just a posture, or a mantra, or a breathing exercise.

I will say this. Yoga tells us how emotions and thoughts are formed. How everything flows into eachother ( ether, air, fire, water, earth ). Yoga tells us how energy moves! Contracts, Expands, Balanced! (look at your breathing).

So this is just a tiny bit. Very tiny. Yoga will go on and explain things like Ego, Intellect, Intelligence, Memory.

Also Joy, Love and of course, fear, hate , attachment and not to forget.................................. IGNORANCE!

yes I am very ignorant

But something which includes all these things, isnt that a science !?!?

No.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:23 pm

garyb wrote: why do you get such pleasure from being a troll?
damn bingo, you just can't help but spread your hate can you?

Are you sure that's what it is?

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:31 pm

No ? What are the requirements these days ?

Is it a science when we have a whole set of instructions to cure illness, and to learn how to improve hearing, eye sight and such ? Which actually work, if followed properly.

Like I said before, I am very ignorant

so I am glad you are here to keep me on my toes. These are subtle matters, and some of us are not quite ready to deal with these deeper issues of the self.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:34 pm

In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

The scientific method seeks to explain the events of nature in a reproducible way, and to use these reproductions to make useful predictions. It is done through observation of natural phenomena, and/or through experimentation that tries to simulate natural events under controlled conditions.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:40 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:
In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

Knowledge! Well I just gave you a whole list of that.

And the practice of yoga will let you experience them!

And there are thousansd of people doing research

Actually
350.000.000 or so.

So I still think its a science. Maybe you disagree with the scientific method ?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:47 pm

Well, that's all peachy.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:49 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:
In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

The scientific method seeks to explain the events of nature in a reproducible way, and to use these reproductions to make useful predictions. It is done through observation of natural phenomena, and/or through experimentation that tries to simulate natural events under controlled conditions.

Well it is reproducible. Thats what the instructions are for. The results which can be achieved are also mentioned together with the instructions.

You are observing the workings of your own being. Experiencing the results.

And with Yoga you are definitly controlling your conditioning

Post by **hubird** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:44 pm

FrancisHarmany wrote:Well it is reproducible. Thats what the instructions are for. The results which can be achieved are also mentioned together with the instructions.

You are observing the workings of your own being. Experiencing the results.

And with Yoga you are definitly controlling your conditioning

The Yoga method of gathering knowledge is rather different from the one of science.
Even if Yoga eventually finds the same result as would do science (which it did in some respect), it doen't make Yoga science.

My point is not to scoff at Yoga but to keep the discussion clean.
If Yoga can have lived without science up to 400 years ago, why would it now need the qualification 'science'?

I enjoyed yoga a lot, years ago as a student, but I never felt the need to make it a new discipline at the university

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:46 pm

well in actual fact as far as gymnastics being good for you I think you need to define "good for you" .
If gymnastics was good for you then surely we would see that as gymnasts age they would become better and better until at the age of say sixty they would be able to perform every possible gymnastic routine better than a mere stripling of 16 . But as we know that isn't the case is it . It may be possible for a person with an open mind to conclude then from these observations that gymnastics is in point of fact destructive in a health sense . You take a position Bingo and then you determinedly make fatuous statements to support your case in a very close minded way .Gymnastics may make you strong ,it may make you better co-ordinated but it in the long run it will mangle your body and in particular your joints . Yoga is a very gentle discipline that promotes flexibility {something you need} and the ability of the lymphatic system to deal with life poisons and it also promotes the powers of concentration and groundedness in your body ...thats where you actually live mate ..in your body .
always engage the mind before putting the mouth into motion Bingo ..it can work wonders

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:15 pm

I actually liked your link Bingo, thank you.

Having such a driving negative force in our threads is a good thing.

You are rather skillful at jacking everyone off, and I soak in all sides.

Here's a link for you, which I am sure you will find laughable, none the less I will share it with you. I use this material which was transcribed from Sanskrit to give me a view on how their musical, and mythological developements occured.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/dutt/index.htm

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:47 pm

skwawks wrote:well in actual fact as far as gymnastics being good for you I think you need to define "good for you" .
If gymnastics was good for you then surely we would see that as gymnasts age they would become better and better until at the age of say sixty they would be able to perform every possible gymnastic routine better than a mere stripling of 16 . But as we know that isn't the case is it . It may be possible for a person with an open mind to conclude then from these observations that gymnastics is in point of fact destructive in a health sense . You take a position Bingo and then you determinedly make fatuous statements to support your case in a very close minded way .Gymnastics may make you strong ,it may make you better co-ordinated but it in the long run it will mangle your body and in particular your joints . Yoga is a very gentle discipline that promotes flexibility {something you need} and the ability of the lymphatic system to deal with life poisons and it also promotes the powers of concentration and groundedness in your body ...thats where you actually live mate ..in your body .
always engage the mind before putting the mouth into motion Bingo ..it can work wonders

If you really wanted to be thorough you'd insert an example or a citation here in there in the spirit of exactness, as you notice most of my statements do. Being vague and generalizing and lumping all my statements as fatuos is not only cowardly but also inflammatory and immature. As I said before, this behaviour is quite the opposite of the philosophy you are defending which tells me you didn't get it or don't really give a shit about it.
Now regarding gymnastics and yoga, if you really did a scientific research yourself on the benefits of gymnastics and yoga and you are in the possesion of that data I'd be happy to look at it. Otherwise I will consider your statement as pure fiction.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:36 pm

You mean science "messures" the "physical" as good as they can, and thus have "proof" ?

What about things we cannot messure, they can never be used in science ? Thats the whole point why you say yoga is not a science, we cannot messure the energies it works with ? We cannot messure our energetic systems ?

Do we need some paper ? What !?

skwawks · Post by **skwawks** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:41 pm

You always want someone to go out and do some scientific research Bingo. I'm not at all into the scientific method and I have no intention whatsoever in doing a series on the subject .As a doctor friend of mine said once when I was spouting on about something that he had seen a series on "but Paul you are a series of one " ....as he was sitting on my balcony and drinking my friggin beer at the time I thought that that was a bit rich but I let it pass because 1, I like him and 2, he was right, but the fact of the matter was he didn't change my opinion . You take someones innocuous post and turn it into a battleground and as a series of one I'd just like to say in my considered opinion you are talking bullshit either perversely or accidentally and that you have a tendency to attack people who in my experience dont talk bullshit all the time and generally try to be helpful..friendly and useful . So Bingo why dont you just try to adopt the old yogic position of being helpful ,friendly and useful instead of being like a rabid bull terrier when fundementally all we're doing is shooting the shit and passing the time with each other . I suppose the bottom line is no one gives much of a shit what anybody else thinks at all so just get over it and be nice

Paul