is "emotionalizing" lying?

[siriusbliss]

All i know is that i watched "whale wars" and they seem to be the most incompetent group of people you could possibly imagine. they managed to fail at every single thing they tried.

But that's Sea Shepard, not Greenpeace. Paul Watson is a renegade former-Greenpeacer that got fed up with GP's ineffectiveness.

I'm all for saving whales and seals, and have even worked with Earth Island Institute and other smaller groups that were more focused on educating the consumer to stop buying whale-based meat - effectively leaving only Japan and Iceland as isolated consumers of whale sushi.

Whales are a critical part of the shortest food cycle on the planet between the largest and some of the smallest animals on the planet. Kill off whales, and the phyto-plankton population increases, which effectively increases the zoo-plankton population, which leads to imbalance in the CO2/O2/Nitrogen levels in the oceans (and air).

HOWEVER, it's stupid to blame us for 100% of CO2, PLUS TAX US to penalize us for not reducing emissions, and then NOT give us tax breaks or incentives to adopt technologies that ALREADY EXIST, while our taxes pay for more more oil company subsidies that they'll never use to develop 'alternative' solutions. The whole cap-n-trade is a shim-sham that will resolve nothing and only hurt the economy.

G

[kensuguro]

brain, greenpeace and PETA are listed amongst the most dangerous, and are constantly being monitored by anti-terrorist operations. Has very little to do with whales. I don't care what they do to the whalers, greenpeace and PETA's operations are much more spread out, and in depth. To the point of directly funding terrorist and extremist operations, and of course, carrying out operations themselves. Wait.. is this was fairly known. Especially for PETA since they've been brought up several times before.

[braincell]

Most dangerous? What list? where? They are registered charities and pay no taxes furthermore donations to them are tax deductible. That means the government supports them. I think you are a little confused here. I don't agree with all their actions but come on now you seem to be exaggerating here a lot.

[kensuguro]

I was told directly by more "reliable" sources.. you know, the kind that can't tell who they're working for, or what sort of work they're doing..

but here are some random stuff I found:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/animal/animal42.html
PETA is known for funding people who... "do" things..

FBI tracked PETA activity.. and also greenpeace.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01777.html

I'm all for animal.. uh.. maybe not "rights", but being responsible with animals, species preservation, etc.. idiots abusing their animals is definitely a no-no. Punching animals is bad unless the animals are abusing me.. but PETA is a different story. Same with greenpeace. Don't like whale fishing? Cool. Want to keep earth clean? Cool. Fund terrorists to get the job done? Very un-cool.

Another one of these silly organizations is Whole Foods. Not sure if these guys are just an east coast thing.. but they're all organic, earth friendly, that sort of grocery store. (they even have organic bandaids) Everything is a notch expensive because they're "sustainable". Okay, I get it. But they've got the AC cranked up so high, that the entire grocery store feels like the ice age, and the entire store is brightly lit during daytime like baseball stadium at night. How's that for a green business? I hope they know that there are more efficient ways to make a joke. but who cares? They make a filthy amount of byproduct (oh, where did all this money come from?) because what's the magic word? "Organic!"

do people know "organic" only means that the compound is based on carbon? okay, so obviously somebody at some point came up with an alternative definition of "organic".

[garyb]

you should know Ken, that wealth is hypocracy.
Whole Foods is just the quality products for people who can pay for them. the rest of the marketing baloney is just a warm fuzzy hug to those who can afford it. think about it, what food is better to eat, well cared for organic food or mass production food? poor people get the crap. it's part of what keeps the poor disgusting and worthy of their position in life.

nobody here has done more to live responsibly than i have. my solar power and alternative fuel use assure me of that, so it can't be said that i just want to be wasteful and dirty, but this sustainability/climate/population thing, as presented, is bogus.

[braincell]

Kensuguro, You still haven't convinced me they are "most dangerous". That would put them above bin Laden and that is ridiculous. The Washington Post article is from 2005 when paranoid Bush was in power and the other link isn't a credible news site.

[kensuguro]

No prob brain, just thought this was all very widely known stuff. PETA thing is pretty famous this part of town. Whether we believe greenpeace and peta are on the fbi watch lit or not doesn't change the fact that they're shady organizations anyway. It's not up for me to convince you, it sort of is what it is. I'm just going by what the agent from "an organization" told me. It was very direct, and to the point.

Many times all the convincing it takes, is to look harder. It's the fallacy of rationalization. If you think something is true, you will keep looking until you find an answer. (or the answer you like) If you don't think something is true, you won't look hard, and so you won't find the answer. So, look around, you'll find tons of stuff on PETA. And usually that brings up greenpeace's stuff too.

[braincell]

The FBI will watch anyone at the drop of a hat. That is meaningless. Dr. Martin Luther King was watched by the FBI so that puts them in good company.

[garyb]

yes, the FBI is not always lawful themselves, however Greenpeace's biggest sin is that it's actually got con men and criminals in positions of power. there have been actual convictions. many of the rank and file have the very best of intentions, however(just like the FBI).

[kensuguro]

hehe brain, we're all quick to fall prey to cognitive biases. Logic and deduction are an interesting step in the dance, but merely that. Martin luther king may be been under scrutiny by the FBI, and it may seem plausible to extend his example to every entity the FBI investigates.. but of course, that is not the case. It is merely what is called "availability heuristic", where we take a vivid memory or something that stands out in memory, and use that as the "normal" case. Actually, in this case, your deduction also includes optimism bias, where an outcome you "want" to be true, has gained very strong precedence over other known and unknown stats.

Bottom line is, FBI investigates many organizations, and including Martin Luther King, PETA, and then all the other legitamately hazardous organiztions. It is quite difficult to say that because the FBI has investigated Martin Luther King, that all organizations they investigate are equal to, or of similar nature to Martin Luther King. That's a general application of a fringe case.

At the end of the day, humans are extremely selective in the material it uses to paint reality exactly as it pleases. We have a selective mind, and there is nothing we can do about it. How the filter is shaped shows our identity, and our identity separates us from everybody else.

[braincell]

I'm just using your logic. You said that PETA and Greenpeace are the most dangerous terrorist organizations and you cited as evidence of this the fact that the FBI investigated them. MLK was called "dangerous" and a "communist." It's interesting that you can give money to a terrorist organization and receive a tax write off for it!

[garyb]

yes, well...
funny thing about these non-profit corporate entities. there's more than one Greenpeace...different entities to control different activities and assets, and to hide true ownership.

-btw-for the conspiracy-phobes, there's no theory involved in the last statement. that's one of the main purposes behind a corporation is to shield the human owner from the actions of his business. true cognative dissonace is denying what's basic and obvious.

[garyb]

yes, usually illegal, but my dictionary lists synonyms like plot, machination, collusion, and cabal, which suggest intrigue, but not necessarily legality. many things are not illegal, per se, but involve collusion none the less.

in David Rockefellor's autobiography, he states quite clearly that he is part of a cabal.

[garyb]

so some conspiracies are real and known and some are theories. of the theories, most are silly, like the "overlords of the UFO". a few have merit.

when an organization like the Club of Rome says that they are going to make man the enemy of the earth, they aren't kidding, and no amount of positive thinking will change that intention, whether or not that intention can be successfully carried out. i remember when my stepson, who developed the most debillitating type of schizophrenia, got his first auto. he was SURE that no matter what anyone said, that if he truly KNEW that the car would keep running without oil, that i WOULD keep running without oil or maintanance. needless to say, he was wrong, wrong, wrong. "making one's own reality" and "following one's own truth" can only go so far before reality intervenes...

[garyb]

sounds like elite chauvinism.

what else is a "conspiracy"?

[garyb]

if there is smoke...

Rocky says himself that he IS part of a cabal. isn't that enough? he has the purpose.

[garyb]

no, he does NOT claim this "for himself". he is the HEAD of Chase Bank, on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank and the founder and funder of the CFR. he personally funded the startup of the UN, with a few others and provided the property in NYC for the UN building. his family's fortune was staked by Lord Rothschild himself(the current Lord Rothschild owns the IMF and World Bank infrastructure)he's not just some crank. why prevaricate?

[siriusbliss]

the man that prints the money, 'regulates' the money, and funds the policies - all in one.
Wow, what a job.