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yes, faith is needed in a world beyond comprehension. anyone who thinks full comprehension is just around the corner is the person who is the biggest fool and the most deluded. limited consiousness can never know the fullness of the infinite, how obvious!

garyb wrote:
that writer was Stardust.

Well, I think by now it is very clear that Stardust is your one of your other aliases, which is pretty pathetic in my oppinion not to mention morally wrong (but you are the absolute authority in that, so I'll leave that as is). So yes, go on, pretend being a supporter of yourself or, as they said in one of the SNL episodes, "talk amongst yourselves!"...

so, this lack of god thing also breeds paranoia!

man, you are just so wrong.

just for the record, no matter what you think, i'm not the enemy.

garyb wrote:so, this lack of god thing also breeds paranoia!

man, you are just so wrong.

Of course I am, there's no other possibility! You are always right, man!

weak.

please don't hate me because i'm beautiful and a genius and modest.

garyb wrote:
please don't hate me because i'm beautiful and a genius and modest.

True christian traits...

I'm Stardust and so is my wife !

Well, I think by now it is very clear that Stardust is your one of your other aliases, which is pretty pathetic in my oppinion not to mention morally wrong (but you are the absolute authority in that, so I'll leave that as is). So yes, go on, pretend being a supporter of yourself or, as they said in one of the SNL episodes, "talk amongst yourselves!"...
And thus the foundation is laid for a good running gag.

Spirit wrote:I'm Stardust and so is my wife !

"I believe I'm Stardust and so is my wife!" would have been more appropiate, I think.
But that's cute nevertheless!
I assume you are both beautiful and a genius and modest...

seems to topic's burning out, a bit.

from stardust:

faith obviously is not only a synonym for believe.
and believe was all too much used here in the sense of 'non fact'.

Faith has the aspects of trust in someone and also confidence in someone.
Faith is something some may only know when they talk about their local football club or saturday lottery tip
And that is indeed banal.

Well, since science itself, or anything really, is a trust (agreement) based collective reality, most anything has some element of faith in it. Else, you'd have to prove everything. And obviously, you'd have to spend the rest of your life re-inventing the wheel over and over again. Actually, you'd have to start at inventing all the tools necessary to re-invent the wheel.. To build on top of anything, requires faith. To deem anything as truth, requires faith.

Science has always been about proving, and disproving. New information gives reason to doubt old theories. Old theories even get completely thrown out. You'd need to have serious faith in yourself, and whatever theory you're sticking with in a world like that. LSD was supposed to assist in psychiatric treatment.. I'm sure LOTS of people had faith in that. DNA was supposed to solve lots of mysteries? That whole thing relied a lot on faith I think. And I think it's a good thing. Poeple put hope in science. We put faith in something that has potential (not quite 100% true yet), and that gives us hope.

Gary you stated that some scientists believe in god. I am sure that is true but t does not impress me and here is why:

My uncle is a mensa. He scored among the top 2% of all people in an IQ test. He is also a devout catholic. He is also somewhat of a racist. He is more intelligent than me but that doesn't mean he is more intelligent about every subject. The man speaks 6 languages fluently yet he is still quite stupid about other matters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International

well, I don't think intelligence has anything to do with what people believe in. You could be the world's most intelligent person, and still believe that scuba diving is the ultimate experience. You could score a high IQ, and still believe that your life's goal is to hook up with all the hot chicks you could ever come in contact with.

Intelligence is a mystery of its own. It's tough to say what is intelligent or not, given that we don't even really know what makes something intelligent. IQ is a test within a context so.. it's not really a generic measurement.. I mean, I'm sure super intelligent people also drink beer and watch porn and do fart jokes too.

ok, i'd say the same about athiests or any other group.

i agree that religion is often a very negative force, but even if the religions are false, it's the leadership that's always to blame. followers follow, so if their leaders are foul, the religion will look foul. most religions preach tolerance, love, respect and other good things, even while the rulers(religions always are state organizations, at least in the founding of the official orthodoxy) call for the opposite, so, i'm against the behavior more than the religion.

all that said, i'm all for the ending of falsehood. i'm not for belittling anyone for the way that they were raised.

i refused to join mensa. as you said, having a high iq doesn't make you a better person or even any smarter when it comes right down to it. having a high iq just indicates a capacity for abstract thought and for learning certain kinds of things which are rarely truly practical...

none of these things have anything to do with whether the universe is a creation or not. nothing in science proves/disproves creation, maybe certain stories about it, but not creation itself. you may be able to call this or that god false, but you can't prove/disprove god. trying is a waste of time. max plank and albert einstein, not to mention mr hawking and fermi all accepted the idea of god. that doesn't mean you must, it just means god and science are not mutually exclusive sets.

braincell wrote:
My uncle is a mensa. He scored among the top 2% of all people in an IQ test. He is also a devout catholic. He is more intelligent than me but that doesn't mean he is more intelligent about every subject. The man speaks 6 languages fluently yet he is still quite stupid about other matters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International

There is a HUGE difference between intelligence, knowledge and the application of both - known as WISDOM

what's really funny is just how many top-level scientists are the hardest-core occultists(except on internet debunking sites) in fact, it was Aleister Crowley's right hand man in the united states who founded Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena CA(about a hour from me), where he formulated the fuel for the Saturn V rocket(occult named rocket). this man, Jack Parsons is famous for the "babylon working" that he did with L,Ron Hubbard in which he performed a sex-majic ritual to incarnate a demon in a baby conceived thru ritual sex in order to control it and bend it to his will. google "Jack Parsons" or "babylon working" for the lurid details.

scientists from JPL had a radio show here in LA called "the wizard show" where they explain everything and show that there's no wizardry in science, yet behind the scenes during JPL's heyday.....

actually, occultist scientists are as scary as corrupt preachers in my book. as braincell said, these are smart people, but confusingly dumb. what they get from their superstitions is unclear, but i guess devil worshipers can be expected to deny god publicly. ask mr. hitchens if he enjoyed the ceremony to Molech over at the bohemian grove.

seriously, though, while there are strange people out there in every big group. most are not bad people.

oh yeah, now that you mension it, the occult group AUM in Japan was made and run by extremely smart people from prestigious schools. Most were lawyers and scientists, even researchers. And ends up attacking the Japanese subway system with VX gas or some sort of nerve toxin, assasinating a bunch of people, and just became to naughty for the general public. Dumb rebels are punks.. smart rebels are freaky.

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia. ... /aums.html

Maybe they get a free ticket to get laid if they join. A lot of smart people are weird and can't get laid otherwise. Who knows what these strange religious groups are up to.

There is a HUGE difference between intelligence, knowledge and the application of both - known as WISDOM

wisdom is the domain of the wis, which are extinct... music is the best (FZ)

It's interesting to hear people refer to Scientology as freakish. Now you understand how atheists view your faith. It is exactly the same thing. They are all totally ridiculous.

braincell wrote:It's interesting to hear people refer to Scientology as freakish. Now you understand how atheists view your faith. It is exactly the same thing. They are all totally ridiculous.

not scientology, scientists. Jack Parsons was a scientist, for JET PROPULSION LABOROTORY(NASA).

most scientists are not athiests, even if many of them are serious satan worshippers(for real). my point is they often debunk and act like athiests, but are really occultists, hence my description of the founder of JPL and the guys from JPL who have the "wizard" show(whose theme is the wizard of oz song).....

low level guys never believe what the high level guys are doing, whether they're catholics, freemasons, satanists, baptists, buhdists or scientists. it's scientists that make weaponized ebola and anthrax. it's scientists who make nuetron bombs, battle mechs and other machines of murder. it's scientists who are involved in cross species chimera creations and BT corn which is killing all the honeybees, just a few of the genetic engineering horror stories. who cares if they believe in god or not, though when their work threatens the survival of all life on earth. i'm not calling for the end of science and scientists, though.