PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

On 2004-01-31 15:00, Shayne White wrote:
So -- the SDK is basically a package to code DSP atoms, right? So you'd need to know how to program SHARC DSP code? Most people would probably stick with the atom-arranging software.

Shayne, just to clarify. No, the SDK is not what you use to create SHARC-based dsp atoms. It's, as I said, a higher-level java-like language for doing things like sequencers, etc.

I'm not sure whether the dsp-atom creation tools could/would also be released.

Cheers,
-John

On 2004-02-01 11:17, at0mic wrote:
Flexor is based on existing atoms. There's maybe one or two new atoms in the installer

The impressive thing about flexor is that yes, it's based on existing atoms--- but only the most primitive of all the scope atoms: simple audio-rate math atoms like multipliers, adders, etc. As far as I know, none of the more complicated atoms like filters/envelopes were used. So adern's stuff were essentially all made from scratch.

It's an impressive accomplishment!

The new dsp atoms you see getting installed are probably the copy protection stuff.

-John

thanks for clarifying John.

Hi Planetz,

You are not the only one on planetz to support Cwproducts :
Thanks to Laurent, In France we have a very nice WebSite dedicated to creamware at http://www.maomusique.com/forum : Forum, Support, etc

We are all glad to see CW back again

There are many things we would like see to come that were already said
So I will only enumerate them shortly :
· more powerful dsp
· more reliable Drivers
· go on firewire
· we like Linux : driver , sfp !!!
· a free Sdk would do miracles
· dévelope modular possibilities
· freeze function for modules to get more in the DSP
get drivers multiclient

and then, some points that are important to me :
· re-think SFP automation
· Organize a better structured developpement & exchange of presets & devices

And then a really important question to me : I have pulsar & noah. Would it be so difficult to you to make devices on SFP available also on Noah (and in the other way around too) ? I won’t buy 2 times the same product but it seems to me that it would be a real argument for some pulsar owners to get a noah …

We are full of hope for the futur…

Bye

Yes! Linux would rock!!!

I'm a big fan of SUSE 9.0 and I use lots of python coded programs which are binary compatible with OSX. There are obvious basic kernel and library differences, but you can run a bash prompt in OSX so the differences are more in configured hardware and associated library packages than on the core software front.

If you're already halfway there on the OSX front... Linux might not be too much of a stretch. Assuming this whole open-sourcing of the SDK goes forth as rumored, then the OSS community would be more than willing to help.

There are a million and one people at the AGNULA program who are rabid for more Pro-Audio support on the Linux platform. Since the SFP OS is essentially java-based, once the drivers are in place, the rest should be cake! How kewl would it be to be able to open an ALSA driver in the livebar?!

...crossing fingers and toes,
Sam

On 2004-02-01 14:59, John Cooper wrote:

Shayne, just to clarify. No, the SDK is not what you use to create SHARC-based dsp atoms. It's, as I said, a higher-level java-like language for doing things like sequencers, etc.

I'm not sure whether the dsp-atom creation tools could/would also be released.

Cheers,
-John

Well, companies like Waves and Antares wouldn't ever port anything to SFP if they couldn't develop their own atoms...so the coding software would have to be more widely available. Your average Joe, though, would only stick to the standard software.

It would be really cool if we could all get the D/P software for our cards -- I'd love to make some devices. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than the Modular, though.

Shayne

On the Firewire/USB2 subject, I think perhaps replacing the Luna & Pulsar class boards with external Firewire or USB2 units(while maintaining support SFP support for older boards of course). Many who are buying new audio interfaces for bedroom music production I can see being intimidated by cracking open their computer. Enable the user to easily upgrade DSP & such. As with the Scope & PowerPulsar, switch those to PCIX. Hi definition audio is an absolute must for a next gen "Hi-End" CW card. It gives me chills to think of how the MiniMax would sound running at 192kHz. Food for thought!

Two more relevant points that need upgrade en bettering:

* Demos:
To be honest, 95% of Creamware demos through all these years, have been quite bad, and so, unfortunately ineffective... Demos are important, very much so! For instance, the Vectron, a truly phenomenal instrument is nevertheless known by little people, demos for this device are totally deceptive to its possibilities, but the instrument itself is a real marvel! The demos do NOT match Vectron quality at all, this synth deserves much better quality demos... Unfortunately, people are used to think that demos represent the real possibilities of such and such an instrument, and so they get disappointed easily, this is understandable because you have put those little pieces of music there, to say: “this is what you can get with this instrument”, if what you can get sounds dull, well… the instrument is understood to be boring as well, this is the problem.

I would like to hear some elaborated work, music made by professional musicians with the “aim” to show how well the device can do, but taking the time to build something really good, some good music. I would also like to see a few more demo examples of every device already offered, not only the new ones. In fact, I think that all demos should be done again.

I have an interesting idea for this:
A good idea to expand the platform and get people to know your new devices could be running a little contest. Contestants would use the demo version of any of your plug-ins, getting as many people involved as possible to compose with it, in an exclusive way, then they would have to send to Creamware the original MIDI files and presets, and by public consent the best, or more popular song, would be the one to go with your new device; the winner would be given the plug-in for free.

* Manuals:
I think manuals should get much longer, much detailed, wishing to explain “step by step” HOW to build projects, how they work, and have some serious tutorials with a good bunch of pages and clear explanations full of images… If somebody with no knowledge cannot understand, it is still not the “real thing”. I think manuals should be made to cover all needs, starting by the very beginning and going through, all the way, till reaching the most advanced features of the platform. PDF manuals are perhaps one of the cheapest and most effective uplifts you can give to the platform right away. As you can see, Planet Z is extremely appreciated by many people, and the main reason for it is its comprehensive information. SFP manuals should be ten times bigger than what they are today… there is much, much more to be explained about our boards, and this will also give people the opportunity to know how they work and what they can do, downloading a TRULY comprehensive PDF.

I hope this can help, I deeply believe and am convinced about this two points.

In so far as manuals are concerned... I think this could be something we as a PlanetZ community can contribute to. I think it would be cool to have CWA hire on manual writing teams (based on writing samples) of maybe 3-4 people and have them work in conjunction attacking the possibilities of devices. Manual writing teams would get 100hr demos of the device and go to town. They could be paid in either a free copy of the device upon satisfactory completion, or something like CW points towards whatever devices one would want. Again, this benefits the whole community, and doesn't cost CW any money, but still rewards the work done. I love writing that sort of stuff and would volunteer my time especially if there was some type of reward at the end of the tunnel.

Also, thinking of Mano1's Minimax review & the Modular Tutorials, it would be cool to refer readers to presets that run through the manual in stages so they could hear what was changing as it went, and compare it to some MP3 or pre-made preset.

Just some thoughts,
Sam

* Demos:
To be honest, 95% of Creamware demos through all these years, have been quite bad, and so, unfortunately ineffective...

i have a solution borrowed from Gary Garritan Orchestral library site.
why not let the Creamware USERS make the demo for the site?
PZ community has great musician, and since music is their hobby they could make a lot of demo songs using a particular device (or more than one device), then post the mp3, the SFP project and midi file to CW. if CW judge the demo "good", they will publish it online. even with no revenue, just the name and a link to musician's site for example. or maybe after several good demo you get a free device.
for garritan site this method worked great, and even a demo of mine was published!
thi shas the advantage that CW would not loose time on making demos, just listen to them!

this is great news.

Glad to hear that CW is NOT APPLE now!

Good news.
Best of all: SDK and DP available. Finally...
Is it possible to provide a USB/Firewire interface with RAM. To plug in 1 GB for reverb&Co.?
CWA, please use the PlanetZ: NOW!:
Contest for:
1 Presentation. What can you do? Why is it so easy? How does it sound etc. Flash+mp3.
2 Introduction. "Scope for Dummies" - like. PDF.
And please don't forget:
A way for developers to "enter the shop" - the annual PlanetZ voting for the "developer of the year".

Just a few ideas for a few free devices of choice.

Let's celebrate,free plugins all round!!
No! ok guess not!

Glad to hear the news!

"After the press release, planetz will host an in-depth question and answer forum with Frank, in which we can learn about the future of SFP, and perhaps even make some suggestions about what we'd like to see."

Is this it, btw?

One point that stuck out for me was the issue of out-sourcing as compared to keeping things in-house. I'm sure I don't need to remind Frank and the CW team the importance of getting the contract(s) right for these types of arrangements..!

As for SFP development...whether it's 'SFP 4' or not, I'd start with correcting and improving what's there already, especially the issue of the sluggish user interface - I always have to stop the music playing to make any UI tweaks (e.g. change a parameter!)

Being able to start-up SFP with a particular project too would be nice - drag & drop a project file onto the executable? What about a 'pre-load' screen that gives you the choice on start-up of loading a recent project, a (browsed) project, the default, the 'start-up' etc. It's quite a pain to have to wait for a project to fully load just to then immediately load the project I'm interested in.

Sort out the STS series of samplers. You'll find plenty of moans about them on this forum - that the SFP offered 'fully featured' samplers was a major selling point for me, yet I rarely use them at all.

That's about it, really. SFP is the music platform that I've been searching for / working towards since the mid-eighties when I had my first 4-track cassette recorder & 8-bit drum machine. Long may it continue!

Royston

On 2004-02-02 03:30, bosone wrote:

* Demos:
To be honest, 95% of Creamware demos through all these years, have been quite bad, and so, unfortunately ineffective...

i have a solution borrowed from Gary Garritan Orchestral library site.
why not let the Creamware USERS make the demo for the site?
PZ community has great musician, and since music is their hobby they could make a lot of demo songs using a particular device (or more than one device), then post the mp3, the SFP project and midi file to CW. if CW judge the demo "good", they will publish it online. even with no revenue, just the name and a link to musician's site for example. or maybe after several good demo you get a free device.
for garritan site this method worked great, and even a demo of mine was published!
thi shas the advantage that CW would not loose time on making demos, just listen to them!

Agreed, this is something that the Z community might be able to help CW out with, although there is of course the awesome song database of PlanetZ itself to showcase the possibilities of SFP.

Will Frank ever come back to this thread ?

I'm still interested to know whether this means that users of ANY CWA card (Luna, Pulsar etc) will be able to develop devices.

@Frank

Someone has to get your products on the shelves at American stores and websites. You need to have a forceful person with marketing experience. Relying on word of mouth or luck is not going to do it. Unless people find out about your great products you are doomed to more of the same struggle. I can not offer ideas on how to do this because I am not an expert. It is your job to do this or find someone who can do it for you.

I agree with Braincell on this point.

I came across Creamware in Computer Music Magazine. Everybody I spoke to in Montreal did not know of the card's existence. I had to buy mine from a Toronto shop.

These days, eveything is about consumerism and marketing. Hop on the boat, CW!

As craighuddy pointed out at the CW forum this

On 2004-01-31 09:15, CW Frank wrote:
Try to build a US marketing campaign ("short attention span" compatible) on this basis - good luck!

is not a great standpoint from which to approach the issue.

Or perhaps maybe. Take the web site. Currently the details are spread over too many pages. It assumes the person is already interested.

Take Pulsar. Make a single page outlining hardware, SFP and devices. List all included free devices under headings like synths, effects, mixers. Everything linked. Hit them with everything in one shot but have something behind each feature for when they get excited.

And put more stress on flexible routing. It's a unique selling point.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: doodyrh on 2004-02-02 11:52 ]</font>