No more STS5000 for me ! ;-)

RoonSmits · Post by **RoonSmits** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:13 am

Hiya,

I was having quite a few problems with my setup and was more busy doing troubleshooting than spending my time being creative. Most of my problems were STS related, no matter what I used: STS2k, 3k, 4k or STS5000. I tried them all. Phasing was most anoying of 'm all. But also the way they operate, I just didnt like it!
Maybe that's also one of the reasons I gave up. I tried reinstalling XP, Logic, SFP. Too many hours lost this way.

Then I replaced my STS5000 with an expanded E6400 Ultra, 128Mb memory, 10Gb harddrive, D-WAM Daughter Board Upgrade Enabling Digital I/O, 8 In/16 Out ADAT Exp, 32MIDI channels and 9 EMU sample CDs.
And all of this for what you normally have to pay for just the DWAM Daughter Board expansion !

The external keyboard option is so handy, but then I started thinking further,
I also had a spare wireless Logitech keyboard and connected that to the sampler. When I did that, I had to plug the USB connector of the receiver in my pc since it needs power from it in order to operate properly.

It works like a charm, awesome, my sampler has a wireless keyboard !!!!

And most important of all: No more DSP related problems !!!!

I hope you guys don't have the issues I had, but I believe that for my configuration, this was one of my best decisions.

cheers
Ronald

_________________
P-IV 3Ghz/Asus P4C800dlx/2Gb RAM/Asus nVidia FX5700vga/2x17" Iiyama LCD/20+120Gb Maxtor/Pulsar II/PowerSampler/Luna II/2xbreakout box/Logic 5.5.1/Logic Control/Yamaha CS1x.

Dust collectors of the month: Casio CZ101/Korg poly800/Korg DW6000

[ This Message was edited by: RoonSmits on 2004-10-23 12:16 ]

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:07 am

Hmmm, very annoying.
I bought the STS5000 last week for half the normal price because I upgraded to SFP4.0
I haven't paid attention on this forum, because I did't know there was a phase problem with the STS. With STS3000 and SFP 3.1c I never experienced any problems with stereo files. Yesterday I used my STS5000 for the first time with SFP 4.0 (both new for me), and noticed there was a phase problem. The right channel has a slight delay of playing back in respect of the left channel, I could hear it right away. If I play back a stereo drumloop on a STS (I tried it with 3000 and 5000) and record it with cool edit, I can see that the right channel is only 6 samples (with a 44100 kHz samplerate) delayed in respect of the left channel. But it's still noticable. It doesnt matter if I record the STS before or after the mixer, it's always the same 6 samples. I'm quite sure I never noticed it with the STS3000 on 3.1c THis is hell indeed!

Now I'm thinking of pre-delaying every the left channel of the stereo files with 6 samples in my wave editor, so that the result will be that both channels will be played back at the same time. I do feel kind of stupid, doing it this way. What do you guys do in this situation, besides not using the STS at all...

Oh yeah, other synths dont have this phase problem. I already tried/recorded these. It's definately the STS....

RoonSmits · Post by **RoonSmits** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:35 am

Dat bedoel ik,

Ehhm, I mean, that'd indeed what I experienced too.

At the moment I only use SFP for the miriad of I/Os and routing to Logic.

cheers
Ronald

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:47 am

If it's always the same 6 samples off, adjust the sample delay in STM2448 or get ReDMuZe's phasefix in the devices forum if you use a smaller mixer.

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:56 am

I do a lot of sample work in my projects and I don't have any alternatives because I don't have any other (soft)samplers than the STS samplers. I think I just have to pre-delay all the right channels of all the used samples in my wave editor (-0.13 ms) , what will cost a lot of extra time... untill CW will release a new STS or at least a bugfix update, IF that will happen at all someday...

edit: Thanks Atom|c, I'll try both options.
I always use the STM2448 so I'll try to adjust the sample delay. I must have overlooked this option. I tried phase compensation on this mixer but that didn't help.
_________________

[ This Message was edited by: ChampionSound on 2004-10-25 10:03 ]

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:08 am

Phase compensation only works on phase issues inside the device (mixer).

Direct link to Phase fix is:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=16&11

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 am

Hi ChampionSound,

After reading your post I tried the MKS-80 from the Sample Collection/Analog Dreams and cannot hear any delay, the sound comes from centre stage.This applies when inputted as a stereo sample or two mono samples.

Strange?.

Cheers

On 2004-10-25 09:07, ChampionSound wrote:
Hmmm, very annoying.
I bought the STS5000 last week for half the normal price because I upgraded to SFP4.0
I haven't paid attention on this forum, because I did't know there was a phase problem with the STS. With STS3000 and SFP 3.1c I never experienced any problems with stereo files. Yesterday I used my STS5000 for the first time with SFP 4.0 (both new for me), and noticed there was a phase problem. The right channel has a slight delay of playing back in respect of the left channel, I could hear it right away. If I play back a stereo drumloop on a STS (I tried it with 3000 and 5000) and record it with cool edit, I can see that the right channel is only 6 samples (with a 44100 kHz samplerate) delayed in respect of the left channel. But it's still noticable. It doesnt matter if I record the STS before or after the mixer, it's always the same 6 samples. I'm quite sure I never noticed it with the STS3000 on 3.1c THis is hell indeed!

Now I'm thinking of pre-delaying every the left channel of the stereo files with 6 samples in my wave editor, so that the result will be that both channels will be played back at the same time. I do feel kind of stupid, doing it this way. What do you guys do in this situation, besides not using the STS at all...

Oh yeah, other synths dont have this phase problem. I already tried/recorded these. It's definately the STS....

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 am

Immanuel!!

The sampledelay didn't work either, but..
The PhaseFix is PERFECT!!!
Every drum sample has noticable more power now!! Very simple but effective device, no more difference in phase anymore, I checked the recorded signal and zoomed in at sample level, super tight...

Thanks a lot Immanuel

It's still a shame that the STS doesn't do the job right, but I'm happy for now...

edit: @ Aries

I haven't tested mono sample's yet, untill now only stereo drumsamples. It seems that everything is sitting right in the center, but on my system it actually wasn't, after recording it directly from the individual outputs of the STS.
Maybe you should try to record your STS signals and zoom in at sample level to check if you have no phase problems. Maybe you have more luck than me (and Roonsmits)

cheers!

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: ChampionSound on 2004-10-25 10:43 ]

RoonSmits · Post by **RoonSmits** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:28 pm

Hiya,

thanks for all the replies, but since I don't use any of the mixers (I do all my mixing in Logic with my Logic Control) I'm afraid that the phase fix won't help me. Anyway, at the moment I use my SFP environment only for the multitude of I/Os:

http://www.studio-sl19.com/public/music/myrouting.jpg

regards
Ronald

deejaysly · Post by **deejaysly** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:30 am

Please tell me how you have two modules in your project called 'Lexicon MPX550' and 'Lexicon Alex'?

Thanks.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:07 am

Is phase problem on main L-R outs?
Mine sound ok

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:10 am

On 2004-10-31 10:30, deejaysly wrote:
Please tell me how you have two modules in your project called 'Lexicon MPX550' and 'Lexicon Alex'?

Thanks.

Probably the external effects devices - renamed

RoonSmits · Post by **RoonSmits** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:44 pm

On 2004-10-31 11:10, Immanuel wrote:
On 2004-10-31 10:30, deejaysly wrote:
Please tell me how you have two modules in your project called 'Lexicon MPX550' and 'Lexicon Alex'?

Thanks.
Probably the external effects devices - renamed

That's the one indeed

First load the "external I/O module" in SFP. Then in my case I loaded PS spdif source + dest, since that's where I connnected my fxprocessor to. Assign these I/Os to the "ext fx module" (don't delete the remains of the actual I/Os). When you close you project, SFP asks you if you want to save the modified External Effects Device, use a different name than the original i.e. a name that makes more sence to you, like in my case "Lexicon mpx550".
And you have a new SFP device, remember when you want to use the new device, make sure you load the actual I/Os first, otherwise SFP will complain that it can't use the I/Os.

Cheers
Ronald

deejaysly · Post by **deejaysly** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:30 pm

Aha, gotcha! I am not graced with enough space or money for outboard gear, hence I have never come across this one.

Pretty nifty idea though.... and it had me thinking you had SFP versions of the Lexicon stuff

DOH!

Cheers.