Journey of Hypnotoad

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:11 am

This file has expired and is no longer available here. The owner of the topic can re-upload the file, or post a link to an off-site file. <a name="planetz-tag"></a>Genre: Strange <a name="planetz-tag"></a>Uses: Pulsar Effects,Pulsar Mixers,Pulsar Synths,vinco crystal VST fender precision bass fender strat copyright © 2004 Bug Productions _____________________________________ ...MUST...OBEY...HYPNOTOAD...

Well, I was pretty determined to do something with the hypnotoad mp3 file that I downloaded...so I made an STS 3000 patch with it and based this piece on that. This is one of the first tunes I've mixed using my hifi system (rather than my banished Spirit 4Ps), so would be very interested in what people think of the mix, especially the 'eq spread' more so than the tune itself.

Royston

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:56 am

To join into your question about the mix.
It sounds a bit far away on my monitors, like somebody hold a mic in front of the PA.

It sounds like sitting in front of your HIFI on a couch, drinking a beer together.

The balance between all elements are well done
Anyway, this track is very cool and not strange for me.

_________________
Music starts where any language ends

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2004-08-10 09:05 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:40 am

Thanks Chris. I certainly intended the first section to be quite 'ghostly', especially the flute-like sound.

The 'Hypnotoad' patch shares quite a spacious reverb with the (later) piano, whereas the second section in intended to be more punchy and up-front than the other two.

Royston

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:45 am

yeah i's agree with chris, the mix is somehow distant. Maybe that's what you were after? drums lack punch, and the bass is kind of lost...the kick sounds wimpy here.

Is that the best "flute" sound you have? Or were you after a "techno" type fake flute?

I think you have potetial here but...keep mixing.

R

Post by **hubird** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:59 pm

........................ 'keep mixing, but forget making music'

kidding

To say something about the track, before anything else: the sounds are great, as is the groove

However, to me it lacks style, consistency in music style that is.

It starts with a kind of ambient techno part based on slow kind of a D'nB drumming ( you could think

).

This gets followed by a typical afterbeat rock piece, amplified by the streight sounding guitar sample...

It ends with a new aging dreamy pop part, nicely colored with some industrial noise, and I'm lost

There's not much attention to 'style' of music here on planetz, if I'm right

It keeps me bussy for years, growing in time.
I have two reasons for this.
One is that it's relatively quite easy to put everything together what your sample library offers.
It's very difficult however to find the right stuff together.
That brings up the word style, because the style determins what fits together.
(Speeking about the big line here, I know all the possible intelligent remarks that can be made sofar

A second reason is more practical, it says that you won't come out of your bedroom studio with your songs.
It has to match somehow the current musical culture in the world even.
Obviously for commercial reasons, but also because I think a musicion has to know what's going on.

Indeed, all this is not true for geniouses, so them is asked to stay out off the thread

.................... 'End of thread'

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-08-10 21:22 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:17 am

@ nprime and Chris:

I'd be interested in your (technical) opinions as to why the mix sounds quite distant. I have left a lot of dynamics in the mix - compare its overall volume to most tracks posted here (and produced commercially) and it's much lower, although it peaks at -0.3db. Might this be the reason? Did you find that the second section also sounds this way? Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

@ Hubird:

You've no idea how much your comments have cheered me up!

My personal feelings are that a lot of the music posted here and produced commercially are, on an individual track-by-track basis, stuck in a 'style rut'. I want something different to happen, as 8, 16 (whatever) bars of the same thing happening is enough (unless you're at a rave on drugs, dancing your tits off) and I lose interest in what I'm listening to after that. - I've alread heard it! This piece was about making quite large changes in style and rhythm yet at the same time (hopefully) keeping a musical coherency...

I don't personally agree that it's easier to change things quite dramatically in a piece rather than keep to just one style - each approach has its own challenges. Many classical pieces have a very consistent style (e.g. a chamber music piece) yet others have wild changes in mood and feel (e.g. a symphony). I'm not interested in being in-tune with the world's musical culture or 'coming out of the bedroom' with my music

I'll leave that to others. I am happy that you were lost by the end of it - the piece ois supposed to take you somewhere strange and unusual, perhaps even unknown. But it does come back to its starting place afterwards...

BTW - I have used hardly any samples at all in the piece. I built one out of the "hypnotoad" mp3 file I downloaded, and the snare & cymbals are also samples. There are no others. The guitar is played as is (rather imperfectly) the bass. The rest are sounds created in modular and pulsar synths. I actually try my best to resist using samples as much as possible.

Cheers Hubird - I always appreciate your comments!

Royston

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:13 am

Hey Royston, nice frog walkabout

agree about the fatness, it needs a bit of craftiness to keep the dynamics as well..

try a few more takes on the precision maybe, as you said it's a bit floppy in spots, but nice anyway.

the kick could support what it's doing a bit more perhaps, especially in the jam starting at 0:42

Great track, mate, gives me a better understanding of your personality. You remind me of my older brother (musician, programmer)

Keep rockin'

ps - did you ever manage to synthesize the hypnotoad?

[ This Message was edited by: wayne on 2004-08-11 08:15 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:15 am

I'm too stiff for style changes in a song I guess

Well, if it was intended that way, my comments are useless, it's a nice song and you succeeded very well

Thanks for taking my comments so relaxed

About the mix: it could benefit from a bit extra compression.
If you don't like compression, you can try a good limiter to cut the short peaks (if you didn't already), it's easy to gain 5db this way.
If you need more, use a transient designer to bring the sounds to the front

cheerz

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:11 am

Thanks guys!

I'm probably too crazy and impatient to listen to something 'samey' for five minutes...

I feel like I'm just starting out on a mountain of a mixing learning curve...I'm sure that I used to get 'easier' mixes together using a tape-based 4-track and an 8-bit drum box! Does that make sense? It seems that mixing/producing purely in the digital domain is really a very different beast altogher with its own particular difficulties.

When I'm 100 years old, I'll start with the mastering

Royston

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:34 pm

Well I will try to explain how I master my songs.
Nearly every of my single tracks uses compressors to make them louder and more present in the mix.
For this kind of compression I use the endorphin or sometimes the Waves Vox for voices or I simply use a L1 maximizer(yes it´s good for single tracks,maybe shooting birds with a tank but... easy).

A good way to sort up your ´elements` is to group them to mixer groups, groups can be pads, sequences, FX, Drums etc.
So, for example you only need to balance the volume of each drum element and route them to a group and I compress them there. This will save CPU power and will sort up your song.

On the single tracks I often use EQs to carve out the freqs and balance the groups a bit in that way.

Then the second step begins.
I go to find a balance between all groups, that could be done with EQs again, Reverb to make them a bit brighter or whatever.
This process takes a lot time because you often have to go back the single tracks again, a bit here a bit there you know.

Finaly, I master my songs with a mastering chain. First a compressor again that mostly works as a limiter to avoid clippings of the sum. Second and sometimes I use an EQ again with many bands to give the song its final sharpness or warmth touch or whatever you want. Third, I load a multi band compressor to have access to boost each band for my behaviour. Fourth, I load a stereo imager to choose the stereo width of the song and finaly I boost the whole thing with a Ultra Maximizer and dithering to 16bit.

Again, this process takes a lot of time, a bit here a bit there, you have to trust your ears and you should give your ears a break from time to time.
When it is an important track, I never master it in one day. I always listen to it the next day to hear what crap I´ve done again or just to say .. wow, that´s it.
If have noticed, before you mixdown your final song file in Cubase, the song never sounds as good as the final rendered file.

Hope there is something usefull for you.
cheers

_________________
Music starts where any language ends

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2004-08-11 14:50 ]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:56 pm

Hola,

As far as the mix goes I cant comment yet since I am listening to it through a PC headset with a boom mic for free IP conversations, but as faras the music goes its pretty cool, kind of like a rhythmic journey, I will agree with Hubird that the styles do flow all over, but to me thats part of what music is all about, personal expression, a feeling etc etc.

I really liked the bass swells at the start of the track and I think the sounds you chose are great, if I could comment on two things in particular that stood out from what I could tell in this single crappy PC speaker, was that the Grand seemed a bit to dry to me, maybe a verb or chorus needed, something to give it its own unique character cause at points theres alot going on and as the grand is a lead it just didnt stand out enough from my listen.

The only other thing would be that at times the kick seemed a bit to fade away into the mix.

Aside from those two things which are subjective I enjoyed this a bunch, its fun.

Cheers!

AudioIrony · Post by **AudioIrony** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:12 pm

This one certainly breaks the mold or is that mould (?)

HYPNOTOAD could be a new personal super hero, beating BatFink and DangerMouse hands down.
HYPNOTOAD - he's a toad of action!
HYPNOTOAD - he's a sophisticated lounge toad of leisure!

I wasn't keen on the "water glass" ringing tone motif, just personal taste (was a bit too Next Generation or Deep Space Nine)
Other than that, all I'd say is the bottom end needs a bit of pumping up.

Interesting stuff.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:42 pm

Sounds like it would be good for a cartoon.