MSB and LSB

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:15 am

a friend who owns a Roland XV-3080, asked for some help, he has troubles to find out how bank select and controllers work.
Maybe I come back later with detailed questions, for now I would like to know what the L and M stands for in MSB and LSB.
I guess SB is select bank?
There was a time I knew this things, but not playing live anymore I've forgotten about it

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:21 am

Most Significant Byte ?
Least Significant Byte ?

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

On 2004-07-28 10:21, BingoTheClowno wrote:
Most Significant Byte ?
Least Significant Byte ?

Yes.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:37 am

Your friend should have the second manual that comes with the XV-3080.
One is the Owner's manual
Two is the Quick Start Guide and
Three is the Q & A, Sound List.

Perhaps he does.

Ok, Sounds are selected through 2 control changes in the XV-3080 plus a program change.
Bank selectors are CC#0 and CC#32.
The value assigned to CC#0 is usually 87. If a drum program is what you want CC#0 should be assigned a value of 86.
CC#32 is trickier as a value of 0 will assign the program change to the USER BANK.

Preset groups A to F have CC#32 values from 64 to 69.

I have an XV-3080 so ask all you want, I'll be here

P.S.: If anybody's interested I'm selling mine for $1200.00 CDN

_________________
Paul R. Martin - Are we listening?

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2004-07-28 10:43 ]

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:43 am

[edit: Paul, you beat me to it:]

Huub, check out the MIDI pages for more on MSB/LSB. It's a system used in MIDI to get much more out of the 128 values a CC# can take: actual value = (MSBx128)+LSB. The CC# 00 and 32 as we know it for bank select and program change are also an example of MSB/LSB. Sometimes the MSB and LSB can be used separately, an example is Tune and Fine Tune. Sometimes only sending LSB is also accepted, see Program Change. You don't have to choose a bank if it doesn't have to be changed. Check out in its manual which CC# the MSB/LSB of your synth use...

I hope this helps

_________________
More has been done with less.

[ This Message was edited by: at0m|c on 2004-07-28 10:44 ]

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:46 am

About the controllers, There are quite a few sites that list which controller does what.
I'm sure your friend can find some by googling a bit.

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:18 pm

hey, thanks guys, that's great information!
Great offer Paul, I'll see if I can solve my friend's problems, if not I'm happy to ask you!

My friend is a composer for live instruments, often orchestral.
He's living from it, and since a short time he uses a pc in combination with the Roland synth, to get a better idea of the progress of the piece he's working on.

His problems have to do with keeping saved all the multi channel and program settings (Performance).
Also he was talking about unexpected pitch changes of a part, sounding a half tone higher...??

I guess, with your specific controller info at hand, I will find my way.
The LSB and MSB terms I found in the manual you're talking about Paul, I gave them all with me now.
Borg's midi site brought me not the information I was looking for, so I asked here.

Do I see this right: MSB and LSB are tools to get a higher 'resulution' in values?

Thanks sofar, I keep you updated of the results tomorrow:-)

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:59 pm

No. MSB and LSB relate to parameter addresses not the values assigned to them. Values are for the most part 0 to 127 (or 1 to 128).

Let me give you a sound piece of advice:
Forget about MSB and LSB, it will only confuse you. Unless of course you want to understand SysEx messages better. But even then MIDI implementation charts are more useful in getting what you want.

A Control Change is a Control Change and it's the easiest way to work in a Roland module.
Example:

You want to add a bit of Chorus to channel 1 so you open your event editor, add "1 CC 93 XX"(XX being the amount of chorus you want)

If you absolutely want to add it via SysEx you will have to type:(in a Roland SoundCanvas)
F0 41 10 42 12 40 11 21 20 6E F7 (this command will assign a value of 32 to the amount of chorus)

See how much more complicated it is? The big problem with most systems is that you have to calculate the checksum(last value before F7) and that is really a pain in the neck.

So.....Forget about LSB and MSB. Really, it's for the best and on with the music, eh?

_________________
Paul R. Martin - Are we listening?

[ This Message was edited by: paulrmartin on 2004-07-28 21:05 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:23 pm

I will do

seriously, I get what you mean, thanks:-)

Years ago I was used to use Controller 0 for Bank select, followed by a Program change.
Saving a (Roland) shouldn't be a big problem for me, as I know the Roland setup style.
We'll see...

As for the pitch change problem, I expect it to be a sequencer 'hidden' note command problem, if of course the Roland hasn't a problem, as it seems to occur randomly.

thanks again ya all for your help and interest:-)

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-07-28 21:24 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:29 am

If bank change is all you're after then it's more simple than these answers suggest. i have a JD-990 (OK only four banks but i'd imagine the principle is the same) and from Cubase it's very easy to access the banks once you know the bank change number value. So for user banks the values are any number between 0-63 and for the preset banks it's 64-127.

In the Cubase Inspector you can select 'Roland Bank' mode from a drop down next to the Bank parameter. This obviously gets stored in your song. So to summerise:

User Bank 1 (internal RAM), Bank=0 Progs1-64
User Bank 2 (RAM card), Bank=0 Prog65-128
Preset Bank A, Bank=64 Progs1-64
Preset Bank B, Bank=64 Progs65-128

You could have any number between 0-63, but it's just easier to remember 0 for the first bank etc.

Mr A

PS. MSB actually stands for Most Significant Bit, not Byte BTW.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2004-07-29 06:35 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:33 am

paulrmartin wrote:

Let me give you a sound piece of advice:
Forget about MSB and LSB, it will only confuse you.

I'd agree with that with the one exception of pitch bend control, where you need the finesse offered by using two bytes, rather than one. I can't think of any other MIDI control messages which really benefit from using both the 'course' and 'fine' bytes though.

Royston

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:32 am

This does not apply in the XV-3080 in the way you seem to mean, Counterparts.

You can only compand the pitch bend response in this module, not expand it. You see, the way these synths work, you have to set a Pitch Bend range(anywhere from 1 semitone to 24) then the machine will respond to PB messages accordingly. I checked the MIDI implementation chart and nowhere did I find "in-between" values to the amount of pitch bend you can apply(unless you're playing on a quarter-tone scale, of course)

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:57 am

Ah sorry, I was in 'generic' mode...

Royston

Post by **hubird** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:49 am

Well, defining the banks and patches from within the Inspector of Cubase worked fine!
For the right user bank you have to choose the combined MSB-LSB numbers as defined in the manual.
The program change has to follow as usual.
My friend was close to this procedure, but he messed up the whole thing by some forgotten program changes in the grid editor of some parts, which drove him crazy

The pitch problem didn't occur, but he will find out now by himself he said.

Thanks to you all for your helpfull thoughts!