Monitor mix with effects

Rogurt · Post by **Rogurt** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:37 pm

on the chanels sent to the monitor mix theres no effects (which is correct i assume). When I try to put send effects on the monitor mix it just won´t work. What´s wrong?

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:51 pm

What mixer? What setup? A 1000 ways to do this on Scope...

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:01 pm

STM24/48 has a blue switch to do this in the channel view for each aux return

Rogurt · Post by **Rogurt** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:32 pm

Sorry. The mixer is the 2448 and I want to do it with the internal features of that device. I know that you can route anything to anywhere and i could do it in another way. But there´s that knob and nothing happens when pressing it...

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:35 pm

Turn the gain up at the top as well

Rogurt · Post by **Rogurt** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:41 pm

I´m quite sure that it´s not a gain which is down (or something like that). Let´s take it the other way round. Are you using monitor sends in mixes with the moitor signal having send effects? So that a e.g singer gets a dedicated mix with seperatly defined send effects. Does this work correctly?

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:46 pm

Just a quick fix (I can't test monitor inserts on my machine til later):

Route the monitor bus outs back into a stereo input channel. De-select the input channel's "Mix" button (little cyan thing) and make sure its monitor, aux, etc sends are all off. Use insert effects on that channel. Take the DI's from the channel and send them to your "monitor" hardware outputs.

A temporary solution anyway...

Johann

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:47 pm

Rogurt - Well, to be honest I've not used it that way (although I'm pretty sure you can - you've switched the button & turned the gain up, right ?)......
For a quick fix I usually just route the fx out to another channel on the 2448 & make sure that's sent to monitor.
I'll check it out tomorrow

Edit - on re-reading your post I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do -
I assume you want to let the singer hear fx without recording them ?......if so just send on an aux on the mic channel, then use one of the above methods.

[ This Message was edited by: Plato on 2004-06-24 18:54 ]

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:58 am

It's true.

I tried with both 2448 and 4896. Here's what I did:

Load the mixer.
Send a control room test signal into input 1.
Set the monitor switch to "On" for channel 1 and crank the channel 1 monitor send.
Insert a compressor into the "Monitor Return" channel and heavily compress the signal.
connect Monitor L/R out to a channel.

No go. The channel shows the input signal, not the compressed signal.

But wait! What's this "External" button...

Turn "External" off. (Monitor L/R send and return disappear from the routing window.)
Press "Talkback" and set the "Studio" out to "Monitor". Note that the compressor is still straddling the Monitor Return channel, whose "External" button is now unselected.
Connect the Std L/R outputs to the Channel.

Still no go. The Channel shows the uncompressed Monitor L/R output.

As far as I can tell, Rogurt is right on -- the inserts on the Monitor bus do nothing.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Cheers,

Johann
P.S. Rogurt, maybe you should get to know Ralf, if you haven't already?

Rogurt · Post by **Rogurt** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:29 am

Plato: I´m trying to get a setup like what you learn to work on in big studios. You give the musician a seperate mix (adapted to his needs). You listen to the full mix in the control room. The monitor signal gets a seperatly defined amount of send effects. And yes I did it with routing busses back to a stereo channel but I´m sick of workarounds...

Hmm, I don´t know Ralf. Is he related to CW?
I have more problems of this kind. It seems to me like nobody has used the 2448 in a workflow like in big studios doing session recordings? Why have there been no threats about this problem in the forum before?

[ This Message was edited by: Rogurt on 2004-06-25 08:36 ]

Ralf · Post by **Ralf** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:39 am

>Is he related to CW? Yes he is

Hello Rogurt,

sorry but currently i have only the idea to disable the mute in the returnsection( like posted here from other people ).
Moreover you have to gain up the potis left of the mute button.
I you want, please write an email to my adress, which is rb@creamware.de and i will forward it to the developer of the 24/48.

cheers
Ralf

On 2004-06-25 08:29, Rogurt wrote:
Hmm, I don´t know Ralf. Is he related to CW?
I have more problems of this kind. It seems to me like nobody has used the 2448 in a workflow like in big studios doing session recordings? Why have there been no threats about this problem in the forum before?

[ This Message was edited by: Ralf on 2004-06-25 08:42 ]

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:25 am

Well knock me down with a feather - the lights are on but there's no-one in !
I've got the same thing happening here - all the knobs & switches are there for sending the aux returns out on the monitor mix, but have no effect whatsoever....looks like a connection is missing somewhere - back to using normal input channels it seems.
Also - related to your other post: the aux channels only seem to work on the left when the external button is pressed (ie internal aux mode)

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:43 pm

Hi Rogurt.

Looks like you've found some pretty cool bugs!

Nevertheless don't forget that big studios have bugs all the time too. That's part of the fun of it all.

Workarounds are a part of any studio owner's / employee's life.

Incidentally, the "External" routing for monitor effects is much more like a real "big" studio anyway. The only kind of studio that has reverb built into the monitor section is a Roland VS Bla Bla Bla.

Unfortunately there are no unbalanced "insert" snakes in SFP. Actually maybe that's a good thing. But otherwise the "Mon L/R send -> Effects -> Mon L/R return -> Studio L/R out" chain is pretty close to the "real" world.

(Also just having a separate "Monitor" bus is pretty cool IMHO.)

Hope you don't get too frustrated. It's fun + educational having ya around.

Cheers,

Johann

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:00 pm

Hey blazesboylan, what exactly is the Monitor return for ?....(real world & scope)....seems to be just an aux return with a different name in scope....or is it meant to be a completely independent circuit so you can have separate send + return levels to the same fx unit on the monitor mix ?.....presumably if the 'aux to monitor' switch & monitor gain knob worked you'd have an independent send control to adjust fx to monitor anyway, so why the additional M Return ?

[ This Message was edited by: Plato on 2004-06-25 14:07 ]

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:58 pm

On 2004-06-25 14:00, Plato wrote:
why the additional M Return ?

So that you can route it to Control Room / Studio out, along with your "talkback" channel.

It's pretty cool actually. You have a lot of control over mixing the level of the talkback mic in with the monitor bus (or the main mix bus, or the external input 1 / 2). Quite powerful when you're doing tracking. Allows you to talk back to the b*tchy bands who are complaining that there's not enough reverb to make their terrible voices sound good.

Mind you I'm not sure that I would bother using a precious A-D input for a talkback mic. So maybe the best solution is to feed some kind of squelching sample into the talkback channel, and crank the volume every time the band gets whiney. Take that you whinging musicians! Bif! Sok! Pow!

Cheers,

Johann

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:09 pm

Rogurt · Post by **Rogurt** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:23 am

to end this topic: I´ve tested a lot and I found that it is not possible to have the dedicated aux levels on the monitor-mix outs. If you have the monitor-mix (= monitor aux) set to internal it all works fine (when listened via the control outs). But since you don´t have the signal on the monitor outputs anymore we have to use a workaround.
I have the monitor-aux set to internal, mix the dedicated send to this signal and listen to it vie control room outs (set from mix to monitor). The CR outs then get connected to a monitor destination. But I still want to have 2 controlroom speaker-pairs. So I connect the studio out (STD) to the "controlroom" device and have my controlroom hardware connected. To listen to the monitor signal I switch from mix to monitor in the 2448. If I want to have the signal on the other speakers I got to switch it in the "control room" device (which I remote via midi).
This way the project eats a little more DSP power but the handling is almost perfect.

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:29 am

hmmm....bit of a pain that it doesn't do what it says on the tin, but at least we've got the flexibility to construct workarounds.
I wonder if Frank'll get anywhere with the guy that designed it all?

Rogurt · Post by **Rogurt** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:39 am

Oh no! I though I sorted it all out...
With the routing described above there´s a severe problem: you can´t get the talkback signal to the monitor channel!
%$##!$