Unregistering Plugins

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:57 pm

On 2004-05-10 17:23, Jan Nolte wrote:
...The activation-keys are copy-protections. If it's so complicated to re-register them, it is Creamware's problem, not ours.

ok, ok - I know I'm the devil's advocat when it comes to money issues

here's that box of modular 3 with the licence agreement on it's back:

topic software transfer
software products are licenced exclusively for one unique audio hardware. The transfer of this software product to any other CWDT audio hardware requires a separate licence.

generally it's up to the licenser if you're allowed to transfer your licence. You bought the right to use it and not the product itself.

35 Euro is what I pay for a vinyl disk in fairly good condition or 2 quality bottles of wine or a classic DVD disk or 6 trips on the public bus to the next town and back...

cheers, Tom

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:57 pm

i think we can start a legal action against creamware.
They have change the policy of selling their plugs.Without informing us.
I have buy a 2nd hand plugs a month ago and im still waiting for the key exchange.Now i've been informed from the mate that have sell me the plug that we must buy the key exchanger.
Thet people at creamware are a bunch of dorks!
Repeat:we can start a legal action if we want...this is how to kill a great music production system.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:04 pm

On 2004-05-10 18:57, kwild wrote:
...I have buy a 2nd hand plugs a month ago and im still waiting for the key exchange...

I completely agree that you're not charged for what was handled before the publication of the new conditions.
But I'm not so confident about legal actions, see the excerpt from the licence agreement above.

cheers, Tom

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:12 pm

I've always wondered about this. I have keys for my card that say XXXXXXXXXX. If I "transfer" the keys to another card, I still have the original keys, don't I? Then this system is not pirate-proof. So essentially you are buying the plugin all over again, previously for free. Perhaps they had evidence that people were abusing the system (?) and now they want to be compensated.

At least it's legitimate now; if they're getting paid for it, you won't have to wait five months!!

I'm not sure this applies to when you sell a card; in that case you are transfering the card itself to another account, and that's still free, right?

Shayne

siberiansun · Post by **siberiansun** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:17 pm

On 2004-05-10 19:12, Shayne White wrote:
I've always wondered about this. I have keys for my card that say XXXXXXXXXX. If I "transfer" the keys to another card, I still have the original keys, don't I?

if you're selling one or more "optional" plugins, CWA sends you a reset file which toally resets the card when executed. this leaving your card unusable.
this file then gets returned to CWA.

after the keys has swapped owners you get a new allkeys file which installs everything back. minus your sold plugs.
so the buyer cannot recieve the keys until this card reset has taken place.

i think it roughly works like that.

[ This Message was edited by: siberiansun on 2004-05-10 19:20 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:29 pm

exactly - and the reset file first does it's job, then HAS TO transfer it's success message to CWA, who then generate the new allkeys file, which is finally transmitted back.
There's a time gap between the success message and the receipt of the new file.
During that period your card is unusable !

If it would be different you simply could ignore the complete process and continue to use your old system (and keys).

cheers, tom

siberiansun · Post by **siberiansun** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:30 pm

.. which makes CWA's copy protection pretty solid after all

Jan Nolte · Post by **Jan Nolte** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:41 pm

On 2004-05-10 18:57, astroman wrote:
35 Euro is what I pay for a vinyl disk in fairly good condition or 2 quality bottles of wine or a classic DVD disk or 6 trips on the public bus to the next town and back...

Maybe you're swimming in money (do you work for creamware?

). I earn 550€ a month, so I've no money for quality wine or re-registrations.

I think in truth Creamware wants to make it more difficult and unattractive for us to sell plugins. Every plugin we sell they lost.
I wonder, when the goverment will prohibit auctions like ebay and order the people to buy all new to support the ailing economy.
Creamware tries it this way...

[ This Message was edited by: Jan Nolte on 2004-05-10 19:57 ]

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:58 pm

hi

this is a part of the new 4.0
an the new marketin
maybe...

Post by **hubird** » Mon May 10, 2004 7:51 pm

Well, I can't blame CWA for this, I've the impression that trading plugs has increased enormously, I did two times already

(but didn't come through tho, asking for re-registrating).
The level of income of someone can't define the righteousness of this decision of CWA.

We have to realize and accept that we don't buy software, you just buy a license to use it.
Even we, software users, aren't used to think of it this way, let alone the rest of the world.
Next generations will be used to this way of thinking, we're still too analog I guess

One thing:
if you buy a used CWA card including the software plus keys, you can use that stuff if you get the username plus password from that person, to enter 'his' Mypage.
There is no email adress identification, so you better can by a whole card than one plugin

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-05-10 20:53 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon May 10, 2004 8:56 pm

On 2004-05-10 19:41, Jan Nolte wrote:
...Maybe you're swimming in money (do you work for creamware? ). I earn 550€ a month, so I've no money for quality wine or re-registrations.

...I wonder, when the goverment will prohibit auctions like ebay and order the people to buy all new to support the ailing economy.
Creamware tries it this way...

well Jan, unfortunately I'm still working on a pool full of money, but I'll probably never get there - there are things in life I consider more important than pure luxory.

A little bit is ok, that's why I prefer one good bottle from time to time - the wine budget depends on how much you drink...

I don't even own a car, seriously - the ticket price above wasn't a joke.

Actually I spare enough money on six-packs and lemonade to finance my plugins, because my favourite drink is pure water, which I really learned to love in the Greek mountains

I'm not particulary wealthy - obviously I just distribute my expenses differently than most people.
But I'm considered a qualified worker - by others

Enough joking, sorry for drifting ot...

You've made a very good point about eBay, obviously your one of the few people who realised it's true economic importance.
It is the biggest challenge (or desaster) for qualified local stores of whatever kind of business, a tax killer and it will reliably prevent any (expected) economic growth in the near future.
I wouldn't disagree on your statement about CWA's role

cheers, Tom

ps: in case my nick is irritating because CWA once had a similiar reading adress - 'astroman' is a climb in Yosemite, a challenge I'd like to take if I'll ever get to this place

edit: that sentence about income above may read somewhat arrogant in that context - please take into consideration that I have to pay all my insurances and contributions for retirement myself, and I can be fired from one day to the other without 'social safety net'

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-05-11 00:06 ]

Ashkenazy · Post by **Ashkenazy** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:32 am

O, please, stop this 'understanding the company' thing. It's us, the costumers, who are the most important. I really find it anti-social that creamware is going to charge for plugin transfers, and not even at 5 euro, but 35 euro per plugin!
I want to sell about 10 plugins. That would be 350 euro transfer costs!!! That's almost the price of one new Synths'n Sampler or Mix'n Master Pack. Will I actually get this money back and make some profit out of it (otherwise I could as well give them away for free)???

The plugins sold via ebay have been payed for by the first buyer so creamware always receives money for every sold plugin. It's a buyers right to sell their stuff to others after having bought it.

Those who agree to this new creamware measure I declare insane.
Creamware is starting to annoy me. As long as you buy from them you won't experience problems. But once you want something else from them, everything suddenly becomes a lot more difficult.

Post by **garyb** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:54 am

well the real option(and always a good one)is to buy hardware. when i got my first card,it was impossible to sell plugins(not allowed at all).

*edit* i too find the price high. 5-10 euro seems more like a proper number to me if cw is gonna charge. other than that,a service charge does seem reasonable to me.

[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2004-05-11 01:57 ]

Ashkenazy · Post by **Ashkenazy** » Tue May 11, 2004 1:19 am

350 euro for 10 plugins, that's quite a service charge!

If Creamware would have charged this money for all plugins that have been transferred until now, I'm almost sure they wouldn't have had these insolvency problems!

[ This Message was edited by: Ashkenazy on 2004-05-11 02:23 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue May 11, 2004 1:28 am

On 2004-05-10 18:45, astroman wrote:
so you'd flash your bios over the web ?
thumbs up, you're really tough
the card is absolutely useless if the plugin is 'picked' from the main card - not even SFP will load again until the process is finished successfully.

No problem, asus already do this with their mobo. Beside I've done worst thing over web.

And the sellers could manage this using a sfp device that do key exchange, and use the generated key that the buyer could transfer to you the sellers by email first.

Seriously, all this is totaly doable, and not that complicated.

And whatever you or other will say, i still think it's a bad idea. Better solution would have helped their sales and after market instead of annoying everybody.

Somebody want to buy my GraphEQ31 for 5€ + 35€ for key transfer?

Come on...

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:57 am

5 euros as an exchange feed seems a good resonable price,even if an online re.registration process will be available.
But the real world is another thing...
In the real world there's a company going to death,a support that sucks and a lot of poor user that understand a fuck!!!
"Why did u do it?Why di u did that thang to me...." (as Stretch sings in da old '70s)
I think is time to make a great protest against creamware or leave him to suicide...

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:12 am

hi

i have a friend with luna i would like
to give him some double plugin
like mod2 or effect package2 for nothin of course, now i must pay for this mmmmh

i have a pulsar card a powerpulsar
i would like pass some plug from
pulsar to powepulsar because
i would like to buy a new
scope professional and sell the pulsar2
i must pay for this? mmmmh
i don like this i DON BUY a new scope

and stop please to protect all the time
creamware like a football club
this story of plugin transfer is ridicoulus
ah it's another "buffonery"
here all the people have a great love for
the scope plattform sometime i think
the management of creamware haven't this sort of love

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:14 am

I have done only one key transfer in my pulsarian life. It was when I transfered STS4000 from MY Pulsar1 to MY Pulsar2, because I wanted to have STS4000 in my new (at that time) PC, and not in the old one. So, if I had to do it today, I should pay 35 euros... which is ANNOYING, to say the least.

I PERFECTLY understand that this thing is time-consuming and that they would like to charge for it. But 35euros is a RIP of our as*es! 5 euros would be a logical price (no matter if you transfer 1, 5, or 20 plugins).

This attitude of Creamware shows that it is not that they want a compensation for their time, but that they simply want to make money! It kind of reminds me the following Greek joke/anecdote:

[(in Athens lets say) there is somewhere a park with nice green grass and there is a sign that says in Greek "please do not step on the grass. failure to do so will result in a fine of 2 euros". At some point, a northern European guy who was in a hurry and couldnt read Greek (anyway), trespasses the park and steps all over the green grass. On the other side of the park a policeman sees him and calls him.
- You have stepped on the grass and you have to pay a fine! Are you blind? You didnt see the sign? says the Greek policeman.
- I am very sorry, says the poor guy, but I dont know how to read in Greek. Anyway, since I have broken the law, I am willing to pay the fine. How much is it?
- It is 2 euros, says the policeman.
- 2 euros? Ok, its cheap! In my country we have to pay 5euros for the same thing.
-So what? Says the policeman resentfuly. We used to have the fine at 20 euros in the past!!! But we had to lower it because at such a price, noone was stepping over the grass!

Post by **garyb** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:26 am

rodos1979, that sez it perfectly!

the first post to make sense of the subject.

thermos · Post by **thermos** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:25 am

i bought some secondhand plugs a year ago, the transfer took under a week, i think thats accebtable(eeehhh??? how do you spell that word?).

ps: