That old "Clicks n' pops" bullsh*t again !!!

Jngaelin · Post by **Jngaelin** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:32 pm

Greetings to all CW warriors

My DAW has been running without prob's for about 4-6 months.

Now for no reason (remembering i havent installed anything new during this prob free period) im having problems with my wave driver i seems.

I get clicks and pops when using wave driver related software like....Winamp3, SoundForge, Propellerheads Reason and ALL other wave soft. Iv'e really searched for the problem and im comming up short.
Iv'e never had this problem before. Well atleast i don't recall one anyway. (with SFP i might ad for clearence)

Is there a new driver or something. Im getting very tired of this.

When using ASIO there is no problem.

My specs. (But not for long)
CPU: Intel Celeron 1,8GHz (400MHz rambus)
MOBO: MSI 845E MAX
Memory: 1GB (just installed)
HD 1: Fujitsu MPF3204AT /40Gb (Main drive)
HD 2: IC35L120AVV207-0 /115GB
(additional data storage on server)
GRAPH: Point of view Geforce4 MX 440 SE
CD-ROM/Writer: Plextor 8/4/32a
Network: Telix Pro. 2000
"Creamies" =): Pulsar2 and Powersampler2

OP: Windows XP pro
Soft's: SFP 3.1c and Cubase SX.
Additional soft: SoundForge 6.0 and Recycle 2.0

I really hate clicks n pops.....don't we all....
These two guys allways seems to invade our privacy when we least want it.

Reinstalling my DAW is strictly a LAST RESSORT action !!!

Thanx in advance.

Jngaelin

[ This Message is a message indeed

2004-04-12 15:49 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Jngaelin on 2004-04-12 15:52 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:31 pm

Remember that clicks and pops can very often happen for HD issues. Maybe it's not your case, but if NOTHING else changes, something that changes for sure id disk fragmentation and quantity of data.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:24 pm

[sorry, double post]

[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2004-04-12 21:25 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:24 pm

I also get clicks and pops (actually more like crackling) sometimes with the Wav drivers (never with ASIO)... although it only seems to happen when I have a heavy project, although I have a suspicion that it occurs mainly when I have a few Modulars open.. could you check to see exactly when the clicks and pops happen? Try with an empty basic project with just the drivers and maybe a mixer, then try re-testing the situation with various devices (for example Modulars) open.

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[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2004-04-12 21:26 ]

Jngaelin · Post by **Jngaelin** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:57 pm

On 2004-04-12 17:31, alfonso wrote:
Remember that clicks and pops can very often happen for HD issues. Maybe it's not your case, but if NOTHING else changes, something that changes for sure id disk fragmentation and quantity of data.

Come to think about it....i haven't "deefragged" my DAW in a while...i'll do that first. Thanx Alfonso.

On 2004-04-12 21:24, dArKr3zIn wrote:
I also get clicks and pops (actually more like crackling) sometimes with the Wav drivers (never with ASIO)... although it only seems to happen when I have a heavy project, although I have a suspicion that it occurs mainly when I have a few Modulars open.. could you check to see exactly when the clicks and pops happen? Try with an empty basic project with just the drivers and maybe a mixer, then try re-testing the situation with various devices (for example Modulars) open.

Yes.
I'll start tests with a empty project and proceed from there as you suggest dArKr3zIn.

(actually more like crackling) sometimes with the Wav drivers (never with ASIO)...

Crackling.....yes...i have clicks...not really pops.
No Clicks n' crakling is more like it.

Thanx dArKr3zIn.

I'll set up some test on these "hints" you gave me guys and then i'll report.

Jngaelin out

_________________
Love to you all =)
(I Praise JAH)

[ This Message was edited by: Jngaelin on 2004-04-12 23:59 ]

Plato · Post by **Plato** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:51 am

This is weird because you say you've had it all running fine, but a few things to check:
Power scheme.....set to always on; disable hibernation;
Graphics acceleration & FX.....disable;
Latency.....clicks are worse at lowest ULLI on mine- try & find some middle ground.
Don't know if you've changed anything lately, but SFP seems particularly sensitive to anything graphics-related.....try to minimize any load on your system caused by graphics.

Nisse · Post by **Nisse** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:59 pm

Greetings O Swedish Rastaman

I have similar problems and similar software as you. I just got an answer from CW support and this is what they said:

Things you may want to try.

1. is your OS in standard mode or ACPI mode.
2. adjust your Ulli setting to more than 4 ms
3. is your Pulsar sharing IRQ with other devices.
4. is the on board sound disabled
5. sometimes the graphic card can cause this. Did you try lowering the
acceleration on the graphics card. Make sure you update the driver for
the graphic card.

CreamWare USA& Canada

I havent tried any of this advice myself since Im at work (gaah!)
But maybe some of them might be useful for you?

Jngaelin · Post by **Jngaelin** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:58 pm

Hello.
Heres some updates.

I have "deefragged" my DAW and removed alot of "crap"-data from both my HD's as alfonso suggested.
Result: No change!

I also did what dArKr3zIn suggested about starting tests with a empty project and slowly implementing modulars...and other stuff.
Result: No change.

Now to suggestions by Plato and Nisse.

On 2004-04-13 14:59, Nisse wrote:
Greetings O Swedish Rastaman

Greetings to you

Q: 1. is your OS in standard mode or ACPI mode.
A: Standard

Q: 2. adjust your Ulli setting to more than 4 ms
A: Have been tested. No effect.

Q: 3. is your Pulsar sharing IRQ with other devices.
A: Definetly NOT ! Old issue.

Q: 4. is the on board sound disabled
A: Ofcourse.

Q: 5. sometimes the graphic card can cause this. Did you try lowering the
acceleration on the graphics card. Make sure you update the driver for
the graphic card.
A: Here is a valid checkpoint. Also as Plato refferd to... Graphics may just be the issue.
But i have a rule.
Never ever use graphics acceleration !!!

So thats not the problem.

BUT!
I think my graphics card is insufficient
I have had "small" problems with graphics since installing this cheep graphics card. But only graphicly speaking.

Never with sound or anything else. But my DAW is only used for Music production and mabye one or 2 games. I have no need for an expensive super sonic graphics card. That would have been to much.
Such a board would sertainly in some cases (most cases to me by experience) cause problems with my CW boards. Thats why i chose this card.

I consider the type of card that i have to be a LEVEL 1 graphics card. The simplest of cards

While the bigger ones like:
ASUS Radeon 9800XT 256Mb DDR to be level 5 graphics card.

I would need like a LEVEL 3 graphics card. Nothing to fancy nothing to crappy.

hmm.

I do believe that this could take away my problems.

I'll sertainly be checking over my graphics system. In fact i'll do it right now !!!

Thanx guys

_________________
Love to you all =)
(I Praise JAH)

[ This Message was edited by: jngaelin on 2004-04-13 16:05 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:44 pm

Sometimes lowering card acceleration is said to move tasks from card to cpu, so you do worst thinking to do better.
I have Matrox g550 that gives the ability to shut off bus mastering, that is a condition that gives priority to the graphics afaik, so good to shut off.
I have an 815e chipset, an old but very good P III-s system, that needs special application accelerator to run ata 100 mode.
I have several system disks, in swappable trays, so I can have backup systems in 1 min. or test systems etc., and on one of these systems I had clicks and dropouts very often. I had forgotten to install the intel app. accelerator.
It's not your case, as you have a P IV system, but are you sure that your HD are running in proper udma mode? Are the cables 80pins? Do you have audio HD alone in the IDE channel?

Sometimes USB does strange things in the system, so disable any unused USB controller.

Just another round circle....

Alphawave · Post by **Alphawave** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:33 am

Always Use AGP graphic cards, never PCI.(but of course you know that).

I have an ATI Radeon 9000, which i think is adequate.
I always use full Graphics card accelleration, and this is the way to go for me, and also other people has this preference. If you have a suitable AGP card this is the best setting.

Actually maybe you can check the graphic card issue like this: adjust graphic card accelleration to max, if the problem gets worse, then the problem is probably connected with the graphics card.

As a side note:
I have my computer in ACPI mode and working perfect. Only clicks & crackles when i tried the standart PC mode.

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:29 am

Clicks & pops with the wav drivers are definately a known issue. If its not fixed in SFP4 I recommend just keeping as many tickets open with Creamware over the next 6-9 months as possible and hopefully they'll try to fix it. I know there was at least 1 beta fix which very few people have access to, and from what i understand it helps recording but not playback.

Jngaelin · Post by **Jngaelin** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:36 pm

On 2004-04-13 17:44, alfonso wrote:
.....but are you sure that your HD are running in proper udma mode? Are the cables 80pins? Do you have audio HD alone in the IDE channel?

Sometimes USB does strange things in the system, so disable any unused USB controller.

Just another round circle....

Up till now i was shure that my HD was running in proper UDMA mode....i'll check it closer.
Yes my AUDIO HD is alone in IDE channel.

And reffering to USB.
Mabye you've missed my erlier posts about USB inflicting pure EVIL to my DAW. It is for shure disabled

But thanx Alfonso !!!

On 2004-04-14 05:33, Alphawave wrote:

Always Use AGP graphic cards, never PCI.(but of course you know that).

I have an ATI Radeon 9000, which i think is adequate.
I always use full Graphics card accelleration, and this is the way to go for me, and also other people has this preference. If you have a suitable AGP card this is the best setting.

Actually maybe you can check the graphic card issue like this: adjust graphic card accelleration to max, if the problem gets worse, then the problem is probably connected with the graphics card.

As a side note:
I have my computer in ACPI mode and working perfect. Only clicks & crackles when i tried the standart PC mode.

Thanx for your input Alphawave.
I will be shure to test accelleration on my graphics card!!! Logical !!! I like that.
After that i will try running DAW in ACPI mode

On 2004-04-14 08:29, valis wrote:
Clicks & pops with the wav drivers are definately a known issue. If its not fixed in SFP4 I recommend just keeping as many tickets open with Creamware over the next 6-9 months as possible and hopefully they'll try to fix it. I know there was at least 1 beta fix which very few people have access to, and from what i understand it helps recording but not playback.

Recording but not playback....?
That would be helpfull, if one would not get so damned frustrated, buy unwelcome sounds as Clicks, pops n' crackels during mastering or whatever !!!
In any case, you've shed some light over the issue. Thanx Valis

_________________
Love to you all =)
(I Praise JAH)

[ This Message was edited by: Jngaelin on 2004-04-15 14:38 ]

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:27 pm

For what its worth I experience the problem a lot more on my dual 2Ghz Xeon than when the card is installed in one of my venerable p3's. Of course the p3's are still 100mhz fsb and SLOW! so the Xeon has other advantages.

The best thing that I found to use those drivers trouble-free was the select WAV/MME whenever possible (avoiding Directsound) and when that wasn't a possibility (Quicktime, Shoutcast, Media Player) I would built a custom project that I could use to interact with those programs. Still not a 100% fix but what is in the studio (without spending half a million and not losing your talent in the process).

Also I might add that I now have an RME hammerfall + Multiface (check out their new firewire card) wired up to one of my Pulsars via ADAT. That means any app wanting WAV I toss over to the rme card and the RME is ASIO for logic. SFP is now doing ASIO duties for Wavelab and only does WAV duties for 2-3 apps.

Jngaelin · Post by **Jngaelin** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:47 pm

On 2004-04-15 15:27, valis wrote:
.....Also I might add that I now have an RME hammerfall + Multiface (check out their new firewire card) wired up to one of my Pulsars via ADAT. That means any app wanting WAV I toss over to the rme card and the RME is ASIO for logic. SFP is now doing ASIO duties for Wavelab and only does WAV duties for 2-3 apps.

Nice

Mabye something for me to consider...